And it is a joke. It's a very funny joke.

Mike McIlorum - the form hooker of Super League. At the very fulcrum of the in-form, top of the league, Barcelona-esque Wigan side that have systematically annihiliated and humiliated Leeds & St.Helens in the space of two weeks yet the hookers for both sides - Burrow/Roby - get picked above him. Joke number one.



Joke number two: Leroy Cudjoe is picked above Darrell Goulding. Daz Goulding - red hot partnership with the most lethal on form combination in Super League with Josh Charnley who is the runaway leading try scorer in Super League who is looking to threaten the record of most tries in a season held by Lesley Vainikolo. Cudjoe (although not a poor player) is playing for a side that are on a complete downfall at the moment & statistically Daz blows him out the water playing his part in the on form team in Super League.



Joke number three: omitting Adrian Morley (bravo!) yet playing & naming Jamie Peacock as your captain. How can you correctly omit Morley but not Jamie Peacock? Why is a 34-year old out of form/past his best/ (Leeds fans will back me up here) get picked religiously as an automatic selection & not only that - he's made captain!



Joke number four: the fact McNamara ever omitted Ryan Atkins in the first place.



Joke number five: Carl Ablett/Jon Wilkin over Larne Patrick. Simple as that.



And the headline act is the Knights squad. Chris Hill? John Bateman? Also if Daz/McIlorum have areas they need to improve (Big Macca's words not mine) then surely the Knights squad is the place to do it? How have players like Chris Clarkson and Gary Wheeler got picked and them two London lads Dan Sarginson and Keiron Dixon not got picked? Elliot Whitehead? Even Matty Russell? Let's look to youth?

Surprised me too but for different reasons - the correct call for once.

Kris Welham can't defend to save his life. He might as well not be there. The ease in which Sam Tomkins just walked past him at the DW earlier this year was staggering. He just saw Sam and fell on his backside. Could you imagine Greg Inglis running at Kris Welham? They are so far apart as RL players it's like comparing Susan Boyle to Megan Fox. He's .

Well McNamara's selections are baffling. As a Bradford fan not surprised at all.

No Rhys Lovegrove in either squad is beyond belief.

I mentioned that earlier on and have been having a nice little rant about it on another forum.

Looking at the Knights squad selected it begs the question; what exactly is the point of it?

Is it effectively a second string England team but only containing young players who might step up in the near future? The likes of Matty Smith, Stefan Ratchford, Zak Hardaker, Jonny Lomax etc suggest that it is, but then why does it include Lee Gaskell, Rhys Evans, Chris Clarkson etc who certainly aren't on the verge of England selection.

Likewise, if it's for players who could step up in the near future, where are the likes of Elliot Whitehead, Greg Eden, Luke George and more importantly some of the other players who haven't made the full England squad like Mike McIlorum and Darrell Goulding.

If it's strictly for young players with potential to be genuinely top quality then why not include the likes of Dan Sarginson, Gareth O'Brien, John Bateman, Ben Currie?

I don't think any player has been added to the Knights squad since it was first announced except those who have dropped down. Despite some excellent performances by young players they don't seem to be able to play their way into the squad ahead of players who haven't been playing regularly like Lee Gaskell and players who have been quite simply well below average like Chris Clarkson.

Not really, he's an Aussie who declared for Scotland.

I know a scrum half who'll be upset to hear he won't be eligible

Are you talking about Lovegrove or Ian Henderson?

McNamara has completely lost the plot and should lose his job asap. This squad as in no way been picked on form and is a complete joke. I was going to go to the match next week but dont think I will bother now and will not waste my money again whilst this clown is in charge.

There are more than just a few players that do not deserve to be in the England squad. Most of the Leeds contingent immediately spring to mind and 6 players (the most from one club) from the team in ninth is laughable. Peacock, Sinfield, Burrow, Ablett and Jones-Buchanan are all either past their best or are simply not good enough and all are out of form anyway. They simply should not have been selected by whatever measure you choose to use, bar name and reputation. In the case of Peacock and Sinfield they have had their chances, repeatedly, and failed time and again. There are also players in this squad such as Cudjoe, Carvell and Wilkin who fans of their respective teams have said over the last couple of months should be dropped by their clubs as they are playing that poorly and yet they are picked for England. They are average at best. Almost half the squad straight away shouldn't be in it and thats before you even get to the debatable selections

It is truly baffling that Goulding and McIlorum arent in who have been the best players in their respective positions over the course of the season. Goulding has been outstanding this season and has laid tries on a plate for Charnley with excellant centre play. He has outplayed centres that are in the England squads and is the form centre in Super League. McIlorum has been immense all season and is the form hooker in Super League and offers an awful lot to any team in the middle of the park, particularly in tense close games like you would get in an international. Goulding and McIlorum are not even in the England Knights squad and yet players like Wheeler who they have completely outplayed are and even worse players that cant even get in their club teams are.

McNamara's not got a clue.

Given that there are lots of older experienced players in the current squad and many younger players who will no doubt find it hard to get a look in I would have been interested to see two England squads go head to head. One side would be made up of more experienced or slightly older players and the second team made up of young players with less experience.
It's essentially England vs England Knights except the Knights squad is focused purely on young players currently playing well and possibly pushing for a place in the full squad.
Players like Lee Mossop and Josh Charnley who are called up to the full England squad but haven't made their debut or haven't played many games would play for the younger side.

Something like -

'Experienced'

FB Sam Tomkins
RW Ryan Hall
RC Leroy Cudjoe
LC Ryan Atkins
LW Tom Briscoe
SO Rangi Chase
SH Danny Brough
P Jamie Peacock
H James Roby
P Garreth Carvell
SR Jamie Jones-Buchanan
SR Gareth Hock
LF Sean O'Loughlin

Sub Rob Burrow
Sub Eorl Crabtree
Sub Adrian Morley
Sub Jon Wilkin


'Young England'

FB Greg Eden
RW Josh Charnley
RC Darrell Goulding
LC Zak Hardaker
LW Luke George
SO Jonny Lomax
SH Matty Smith
P Lee Mossop
H Mike McIlorum
P Louie McCarthy-Scarsbrook
SR Liam Farrell
SR Elliott Whitehead
LF Carl Ablett

Sub Danny Houghton
Sub Larne Patrick
Sub Scott Taylor
Sub Joe Westerman

Same old garbage.

The only Leeds players who I would try to justify their selection this season would be Hall and Ablett. The latter is especially written off as 'garbage' but he has probably been our best player this year for consistency and has put some excellent performances in.

I completely agree.

Wikipedia has it announced as "a bridge between the academy and first class sides". So this must be between the academy sides and National selection. So players who have the potential to be top class England internationals. The concept is to be applauded but the current application is to be questionned. As you mention players don't seem to be able to get into the side based on form - Greg Eden? Chris Hill? John Bateman? If it was based on form Lee Gaskell would not have had a spot & Chris Clarkson is being dropped from the Leeds team are just two examples - there are many more!

McNamara states that McIlorum has 'one or two areas' he needs to work on. Then surely the Knights squad is the way to go about it? To 'bridge the gap between the academy and first class sides" - surely there isn't a more applicable case? So then why isn't he included? Zak Hardaker and Gary Wheeler in there but no Darrell Goulding? At the start of the year I could have accepted that but on form it just looks like a ridiculous selection. How does a player like Darrell Goulding get into either side?

It needs clarification & more scrutiny that it's getting. There's not much difference between this Knights squad and the one we had last year. This is despite a drop in form for several players and the emergence/improvement of several players in Super League.

The whole England selection needs reviewing for both sides because I think we've made some alarming omissions. I mean how on earth can we possible compete with the Aussies/Kiwis if we're not picking the best sides?

He's isn't known as McBanana for nothing!

Still picking Peacock and still using him as captain? Crazy!!

Why are we going with average, passed it players such as JJB, Peacock, Wilkin & Sinfield (Who aren't in form) when we oculd have blood some youngsters.

i think the KJnights team could give the main team a run for their money.

McNamara seems to have provoked a number of hissy fits from Wigan and Hull KR fans. I'm starting to warm to him.

The biggest missed opportunity missed for me is the opportunity to give some of the younger players a chance against top opposition and get used to being with the other England 1st Team players.
We have no 'big' internationals this year - there is no 4 Nations, just a series against Wales and France (as well as the exiles) - and this is a perfect opportunity to blood the younger players who will be knocking on the door for next year's world cup.

I don't mind Peacock and similar being in the squad as he will give a good influence over the camp and to the younger players, but I think that there should have been more of the younger players who will definitely be internationals in the future such as Patrick, Houghton and Ratchford.

I haven't seen any hissy fits from KR fans?
Myself a kr fan I wouldn't have expected any player to get in the first squad, I would have thought Welham would have made the knights team but I'm pleased that Hodgson, Watts and Taylor got in

IIRC Goulding played in the 2010 4N & was crap. He has improved markedly since then but is nothing more than a good quality SL 3/4 in a fantastically coached side. Ditto McIllorum who reminds me of Nicky Kiss, a good workmanlike hooker but not international standard.

I agree about some of the apparent inconsistencies - Clarkson, Gaskell, Wheeler IMO are way off the mark at the moment & I am not sure they will ever be good enough. Perhaps this will show it. There are others I would have had in but I am not losing sleep over it.

Goulding played on the wing in 2010 but he certainly isn't a winger. Now that he's playing in his natural position he's playing well. I'm not convinced that Goulding would be good at international level but you never know unless they get the chance. In order to get the chance you have to be playing well and to be fair he's done just that. Cudjoe has been very disappointing this year and isn't showing any real form. He's probably got more potential but you can never be sure about these things.

Having said that, it's not that bad if he's not in the England squad. I'd rather have him unappreciated and underrated and being one of Wigan's best players week in week out than playing more games and risking injury.

As for McIlorum though, it's his improvement that has had one of the biggest influences to Wigan's strong start to the season. Top teams need top hookers and top hookers can allow even a weakened pack to get on top through intelligent play. Wigan's improvement is not the cause of McIlorum's improvement. He's always had talent he's just taken a while to show it consistently. He's matured as a player and developed his game considerably.

Goulding being left out isn't a suprise to me as he's only just moved back in to the centre position after a few seasons playing on the wing. He's on fire at the minute and if he keeps that form up he'll be hard to ignore going forward. I'm not convinced Goulding is a player that physically suits international rugby though.

The one I don't get is McIlorum! He's a brute of a player and his alround game has come on ten fold. He is physical, an aggressive defender and just a general nasty git to play against. He is an ideal fit to play international matches and would work well with Roby. I'd have McIlorum bashing them up for 20 mins and then bring Roby from the bench shifting between 9 and 13 just doing what he does best and getting at defences with the ball!

As for Wilkin, JJB and Sinfield being in I can only hope it's due to a lack of available options with guys like Westwood being injured and us having our 2 best backrowers playing in the NRL.

Goulding on fire is not an expression I would use, nor recognise. He's not fast enough or big enough for international RL, a good club 3/4. But at the moment there is no-one, Atkins apart (who has failed previously), who I would be happy in there. Watkins & Hardaker look to have the potential but one is permanently injured & the other can't pass to one of the best wingers in the world. Otherwise it's those in the Goulding camp - Whelam & Yeaman, who are not quite good enough. I hope McB is not planning playing Ablett there - another great club player whose effort cannot be faulted, but not international class.

Regarding McIlorum, he's not a brute. He's niggly in your namesake's mould. He's not even the best hooker in Wigan, Tommy is brutal in defence with the flair going forward. Just because Phil Clarke creams himself over McIlorum every week, don't make it true.

To be fair he did say goulding may not be upto it physically, but that dont stop him beingvthe best centre in the comp at the moment, who at least deserves the chancd to show he is upto it dont you think?

As for micky i would love to know what these one or two things he needs to improve are, as half of the squad who been picked fall into this bracket and some of those have more than two really basic things they need to improve!

I disagree he is the form centre, he is the centre in the form team. Just because Wigan have been exceptionally coached doesn't mean that will automatically transfer to McBanana's coaching. A number of clubs' fans could argue their centres are equally as impressive, it depends what you use as the basis of your argument - Welham, Hardaker, Hall, Turner, Bridge have pretty good returns, despite being in poorer performing teams or playing poorly themselves of late. They perhaps deserve the chance to show if they are up to it as well?



I agree with both you & McBanana there. I would hope & expect the England coaching team have highlighted to every potential player the areas they need to concentrate on.