I absolutely dont agree with the JJB thing (obviously).....But 100% agree ref Sam.


And i doubt Sarries will be our 'business partners' for much longer, now Faz has jumped ship!

Hyperbole much?

I agree, he's getting to be a bit of a liability now, but it's wrong to say he was only effective in his first year in Super League. He's been a good player for us.

He's obviously not as bad a fullback as you are a judge of the game.

Whetever Tomkins did last night, as usual Bailey and Webb were the two biggest nigglers on the pitch, Bailey's face rub near the end of the first half being typical stupidity and handing Wigan a try on a plate. Very impressive performance from Wigan who continue to be the best side in SL this year.

That attempted tackle was not 'passionate' or 'committed', it was reckless and stupid.

Amazing performance from Wigan. Simply marvellous.

Reckless and stupid is how I would describe Lee Smith kicking Finch in the face. It's also how I'd describe LMS kicking up into McIllorum's face last week. Interestingly these things are only an issue when a certain Wigan player is the culprit.

Leeds are going the same way under Brian McDermott as we did in London, only they've got furthur to fall. As far as I could make out their main tactic was to try to get a Wigan player (preferably Sam Tompkins) so riled that he'd be sent off. Happily Child, who in my opinion had a decent game in difficult circumstances, wasn't having any of it!

It was the holding of that position, and the second push on it that was the problem

Obviously thats the case,



Especially as Leeds are the heavenly choir of angels mande manifest in RL and can do no wrong.
Ever. Fact



Still, going over tackles is all they can do right now, not all that much else they did last night.

Impressive Wigan performance.

I feel stupid for thinking that we would just scrape a win by a try or so lol.

You do realise that when Smith kicked out, he did so because he had just been caught with a pretty poor swinging arm from Carmont, which to Smith would have been no different to a punch in the face and then done over in the tackle dont you?

Oh well when you put it like that, kicking someone in the face who has done nothing seems perfectly reasonable.

Or taking a blow to the face, then having your face done over whilst prone on the floor is probably going to make you do everything you can to get out of that position, including using the leverage of your legs.

But no, you are right, we should definitely castigate the player who got punched in the face then a facial in the tackle for kicking a player he had no way of seeing, and not those who punched him or gave him a facial in the tackle.

Do Wigan players ever do anything wrong in your eyes?

Kicking your legs into thin air offers no leverage, but even if we pretend for a second that it does, it's still the player's responsibility to do so safely. If it results in kicking another player in the face you have acted recklessly at best.


Should we criticise players who kick other players in the face? Damn right we should! Stop making a fool of yourself! If you "have no idea" whose face is near your feet, you don't kick them!

We dont need to pretend, the action Smith did was clearly an action which increased his leverage.

Or you dont punch people in the face then give them a facial cause it is likely to cause said player to lash out in self-protection. If you or your team-mate get caught then you dont really have a complaint. Also i didnt say he had no idea whose face is near is feet, im not sure why you have tried to attribute that quote to me, its probably because you know how much nonsense you are talking, i said he kicked somebody he had no way of seeing, the inference there being that he didnt know anyone was there, not that he knew someone was there but didnt know their identity. Your strawman is ridiculous.

at Smokey.

Self-protection indeed. Cos players never take the odd crack to the noggin in the tackle, do they? Deary me.

Carry on, you're looking almost as desperate as your coach last night.

Sorry are you saying that players have no need to ever protect themselves because they take the odd crack to the noggin? What an odd thing to infer.

Pretending for a moment that that's true, he did so recklessly in a way that could have caused a serious facial injury to another player. He didn't just kick out, he connect with another player's face!


I thought he did it for leverage. Make your mind up with this fantasy and stick to it please.


Hahahahahaha, if a player kicks you in the face you have every right to complain!




It's the same point you imbecile: you don't kick your legs out if you can't see if anyone is near your feet! Watching you dig this hole while you try to justify one of your players kicking another in the face is almost as entertaining as last night's demolition. Please don't stop.

Smith was on the end of high tackle and trying to get up was accidental, tomlins intentional kick that's the difference

Yes you muppet. Players take all sorts of shots in the tackle and 99% don't kick out. Oh, and kicking out at a random player he couldn't see isn't protecting yourself.

Anyway, crack on, loving your desperation.

Smokey can be a really good poster, but when it comes to do with Leeds his standards completely change.

Retaliation isn't excusable. It's understandable, but to make excuses for it (leverage being the worst one) is laughable at best and sad at worst. Tyson got sent off for retaliation last week and banned. A player punched him in the head for no reason. Lee Smith copped a reckless tackle (happens in contact sports) and a facial (which happens a lot). Both are against the rules and should be punished, but that doesn't mean he can take the law into his own hands and wreck less kick out at anyone.

You know this. Had it been any team but Leeds, you'd be saying the same thing. But you just can't bring yourself to criticise them when they're in the wrong (and before you say it, that doesn't mean Wigan were in the right). Discipline is a HUGE problem at the club. Making excuses will not fix the problem.

Smokey is way too busy slagging off Tomkins [url=http://viewtopic.php?p=16937710&tsmp=1338637502#p16937710[uHERE[/u[/url to be worrying about Lee Smith's leverage issues

Smith didnt know that at the time Kn*b all he knew was someone ie carmont had tried to rearrange his face, and oh what angels wigan are ffs.

what a strange justification.