I'd disagree with what you've said there on almost every level. It's only the last couple of years that we've been in any way off the pace and that any team could have any claim to be 'far better'. If that, and specifically our GF win of last year is what you're referring to then you have a point, as that is the only season when it can be claimed we didn't look a champion side, but I don't think you are.

Despite the constant attempts for history to be re-written, the incredibly talented and very successful Saints team were never 'far better' than Leeds, in fact the two teams were incredibly evenly matched as is demonstrated not only by the almost identical league points tally over the period, but also by the head to head record which is so well balanced it's uncanny. The fact that Leeds could do it over the season [iand[/i when it mattered is all that separates the two. Finishing top by a point or two in no way, shape or form can be construed as being 'far better'.

I'd also argue that succeeding so regularly in the face of serious competition and on a level playing field is a greater accomplishment than dominating in the manner that Wigan did when only Leeds could match their spending. That's not to undermine the excellent Wigan team of the era or their unparalleled domination, it's just difficult to say how good they were when you consider the level of competition they faced.

In answer to the original question - I'm going to be as biased as everyone else and say Leeds of 2004 - every game I was half-expecting us to win by 40 points that season, everything clicked.

Better than Wigan winning the WCC in Brisbane whilst carrying a load of injurys??????

I'm going to say Halton hornets U16s back in the halcyon days of the late nineties, when summers seemed to last for ever.

I generally mean super league era when I say modern era.

That will never be bettered though. The only English team to win it down under. What a win.

That Wigan team in 93 was the best I've seen. Simply brilliant.

They lost every game after that incident. They won the SL LLS a game in advance, but come the end of the season they had been decimated by injuries (partly thanks to Terry Newton). Look at the team they had in the play-offs. No Darren Albert, Sean Long and Lee Gilmour at the same time, on top of other injuries they had. They had to move key men around to operate, and most match reports you will read at the time will refer to Saunts squad at the time as "depleted".
I never said they walked the league. But they won it convincingly at the time (as they did the year after), before the last game.


They were very good sides indeed. Which makes Saints performances against them with a lot of their key men out very good, only losing by 3 points and 5 points.


It should have been 3 points had it not been to the dodgiest call in the SL era at the first MM



None of this hardly matters though. In 2006, Saints won everything. The four games they lost were by a grand total of 10 points. They were 8 points clear at the top, and won numerous awards outside of RL as well. The players they had in 2005 and 2007 were not the same, so I don't see why it counts against them.
Whilst Leeds dominated in 2004, they didn't manage to win the Cup as well, and didn't wipe the awards ceremony clean. They were not the greatest, but they were great.

So again, Saints 2006 for me.

Good Points - Sculthorpe & Hooper were also out injured and Scott Moore was forced into playing at the backend of the season.

Hull FC 2013

In 2007 Leeds beat Saints comfortably 3 times (including the GF). In 2004 Leeds won the league by 9 points and only lost 2 games (3 if you include Bradford in the playoffs). They scored more points but conceded 13 more than Saints did in 2006. The fact that Leeds didn't wipe the awards ceremony clean (I assume your talking about the MOS awards) is still a travasty.

The OPs Widnes team was, I reckon, the paciest British club RL team I have ever seen. Whilst technically not the best RL team (they didn't need to be) they were the most exciting (and one of the most effective) in the last 50 years.

They lost 4 games (they lost in the Challenge Cup don't forget) and drew two, so over the season Saints 06 won more than Leeds 04.

When talking about winning everything, I include the CC, the RL awards (like you've said, such as the MoS), and also teo of the BBC awards. Only thing they didn't get was the Sports Personality of the Year award!

Had Leeds 04 won the CC, I'd say they were the greatest (I'm only going SL era as I haven't been watching earlier!). But they didn't.

All teams lose players through injuries. Bradford and Leeds were worthy grandfinalists. When it came to the crunch they were better than St Helens. You can make excuses for them if you want, buy into the mythology if you want but there is a trophy in Bradfords Trophy cabinet which says 2005 SL champions (if they havent sold it yet) there isnt one in St Helens.

Yet they lost. Like Leeds lost in the GF. Bradford had finished 7 points below Leeds in the league. No excuses need to be made. We dont need to hide behind losing Keith Senior to injury at the business end of the season, we dont need to highlight how much losing the CC final which we had made in 2005 (Which im sure you remember) took out of the squad. We lost because Bradford, who were a very good side, were better when it came down to it.

a missed offside at a penalty? Not that dodgy



Awards ceremonies are neither here nor there, No evidence of anything really. The 2006 Sts side were 2 games different from the 2005 Leeds side who could have won the cup and the GF and were in fact a total of 10 points over both games from doing so. The Leeds 2004 side was better than the 2005 side, yet the 2005 could have won more. Thats why it would really be nonsense to judge it over one season and purely on 'awards'. Even if we did just judge it on 'awards' then Wigan in the 80'2/90's are undoubtedly better than St Helens.

In my lifetime, im confident we wont ever see a team as successful as we have seen from Leeds over the past 7 years. I dont think we will ever see longevity, in a fully pro, salary capped sport where one side wins 5 out of 7 championships and appears in 6 of 7 grand finals.

I'd agree with this. Widnes of 1989 were arguably the best team I've seen in the "modern" (limited tackle) era. A shame they fell apart so soon afterwards. I thought they'd have beaten Wigan in the 1989 CC Final if they'd been there - as it was they lost to Saints at Central Park after a joke sending off for an alleged high tackle. I sometimes wonder what goes through referees' minds when they make decisions like this one.

Hull FC 1978/79 season...played 26 won 26

considering how the final went i wish you'd have won the semi!

Wigan 1994. No other team in history could hold a light to this side.

NOt my team mate, I'm a Fev fan. But the Saints side were constructed with the old competitive scrum game in mind and whilst no one said anything officially, it was clear from the final that those days were over - I recall Murphy (quite rightly) complaining about the Wigan halfback feeding the scrum - to no avail. Saints had Stuart Evans, a prop forward who wasn't much good at anything except srummaging and a scrummaging prop was the last thing they needed.

I aren't saying they should have won in 2005. I'm very much in agreement with you that injuries are part of the game.

I think it's a fair excuse though for their losses at the run-in. It's hard to recover from that many key injuries. And it's not a myth, unless you can prove that Saints wouldn't have won the SL had they not had the injuries. It's an opinion and a fair one at that shared by many.


I think the decision not to go to the video ref was the dodgy call




Rubbish! The 2006 Saints side finished top of the pile by 8 points. Leeds 05 finished 2nd in everything and were 3 points off the LLS. They were not two games different. They won zero of the 3 domestic trophies. For someone complaining of people talking down the efforts of other teams achievements, you've done a massive disservice to Saints 06 with that comment!

The thread is about which year had the greatest club side. Whether you think that's nonsense or not isn't the point! It's not which club side was the best over a certain period!


I disagree that they were the most successful anyway.
From 2004-2012, they've won 5 SLGFs, 2 LLSs and 3 WCCs. They've lost 1 SLGF, 3 CCFs and 2 WCCs.
Saints from 2000-2008, Saints have won 3 SLGFs, 5 LLSs, 5 CCs and 2 WCCs. They lost 2 SLGFs, 2 WCCs and 1 CCF.

In terms of trophy haulage, league positionings, wins, I'd go with Saints. You might disagree, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong!

That would be my call for the sheer uniqueness of it

I cant prove that there isnt a crazy old man with a white beard who lives in the sky who seems to be weirdly obsessed with what people do with their genitalia with his chosen representative on earth being an old man in a funny hat and thats a belief shared by many, doesnt alter it being by all definitions a myth.
Have you ever seen a penalty being referred to the VR for offside? Ever?
Im not doing any disservice to the Saints 06 comment. I'd suggest reading what i put in its totality if you came to that conclusion. I simply stated that St's winning those three trophies (and your nonsense of 'awards') didnt define them as a great team. I in fact used the fact that the 2005 Leeds side which lost both the GF and CC final as evidence of this as their success would have been the same yet the 2005 Leeds side werent as good as the 2006 St's side or the 2004 Leeds side.

No you are wrong. You ask any player in the game what trophy they want to win, its the GF. It is the championship. You cant include the LLS, it is nothing, it is treated pretty much as nothing. Its no different to measuring who was top after 26 games, 13 games, 7 games,. We have an uneven regular season which is a qualifying competition. Between 2007 and 2009 a total of 0 pts seperated Leeds and St's, who is to say that if the LLS was the championship in the 2 seasons that St's won the league by a point Leeds wouldnt have tried a bit harder or peaked a little earlier to win that comp? Similarly who knows if St's would have pushed that bit harder in 2009?

Also, why have you counted 8 years for St's and 7 for Leeds?

Personally I don't think they were the best ever team, but certainly up there. For me it's the John Monie Wigan team.

What the Trinity of the 1960's were IMO was the most famous and glamerous RL team ever. Partly due to the way they played, the trophies they won - but also the film, the water splash final and it's place in sporting history and that they were the best team in what many consider the best decade in history. It all helps create a legend.

It was a trip, not a high tackle. We were done against Wigan at home for an alleged high shot by Darren Wright of all people (never cast as much as an angry glance in a Widnes shirt) 2 years later which in a lot of Widnes fans eyes cost us a 3rd title in 4 seasons by turning the game in Wigans favour after us being in control.

I'd also go for Widnes 89. Speed, skill & steel. Absolute joy to watch players like Myler, Offiah, Davies, Tait, Sorensen, Grima, McKenzie, Currier, Wright, the Hulme brothers et al.

I haven't read the full thread, but in my time the best would have to be the Wigan team that Gene Miles played in. I think that was the team that put Offiah in for 10 tries v Leeds in a Premiership semi.

Watched rugby a number of yrs so some great teams in the 80's for my club Hull, but for me it has to be the Saints team of 2006, that really was a special team.

The Team of all talents - huddersfield - 1914/15 won all four cups.