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| [url=http://www.thehotelend.co.uk/here's[/url a link to the cobblers football message board. there's a couple of threads about the new team which on the whole are very positive, with quite a few declaring they will attend some of the games, and find it better to watch than union etc. i was going to post and inform them of the existence of this forum but don't really want to put them off at this early stage  |
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| Quote ="the artist"[url=http://www.thehotelend.co.uk/here's[/url a link to the cobblers football message board. there's a couple of threads about the new team which on the whole are very positive, with quite a few declaring they will attend some of the games, and find it better to watch than union etc. i was going to post and inform them of the existence of this forum but don't really want to put them off at this early stage
'" That would probably be the best possible way to put any potential new fans off the sport. |
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| Quote ="headhunter"That would probably be the best possible way to put any potential new fans off the sport.'"
If only everyone could have your sense of tact, diplomacy and dignity. |
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Northampton RL have already produced more Super league players than Wakefield. Imagine how many more they could produce as a full time club
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| Quote ="freddies wig"Can't believe you still peddle this claptrap. Do you walk around with your head in a bucket? If not you should! So inane!
For what it's worth, I'm annoyed with the RFL for missing a trick with expanding RL into Wales by underhandedly forcing super league on a club not ready by allowing them all sorts of dispensations.
And what have they done for crusaders since? Most other inmates have seen this except your good self!'"
Which part of what Headhunter said was claptrap? Most of it seemed straight facts. |
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| Quote ="headhunter"I get it, you're fully in favour of expansion as long as those clubs remain at the bottom of the lowest divison and don't trouble the real RL teams from proper RL towns.'"
The problem is that Celtic Cruaders' promotions were 'false' promotions - they should only have been allowed to move up a league once they were playing on the same quota and salary cap restrictions on every club in the league, otherwise it doesn't give a true reflection of the actual strength of the club, with as it proved everything else coming out in the wash. Hopefully that's a lesson that will be learned. |
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| Quote ="Saint77777"Northampton RL have already produced more Super league players than Wakefield. Imagine how many more they could produce as a full time club'"
What???  |
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| Quote ="Saint77777"Northampton RL have already produced more Super league players than Wakefield. Imagine how many more they could produce as a full time club'"
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| Quote ="bren2k"How to create one of the best community programmes in SL?
How to use innovative marketing techniques, like becoming the first SL club to advertise on national TV?
How to increase ST sales by over 300% in one off-season?
How to spot and develop some of the most talented youngsters in the game?
Need any more, or will that do for now?'"
The examples you give haven't got much merit to be honest. If that was the case then you should be one of the top clubs in Super League, but unfortunately you are the worst.
As for the statement regarding 300% sales increase 
What have you gone from 2 season tickets sold for 2011, to 8 in 2012? |
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| Quote ="Coventry Warrior!"The examples you give haven't got much merit to be honest. If that was the case then you should be one of the top clubs in Super League, but unfortunately you are the worst.
As for the statement regarding 300% sales increase
What have you gone from 2 season tickets sold for 2011, to 8 in 2012?'"
Well done - facts are such troublesome things aren't they, so probably best not to bother with any when constructing your counter-argument.
Everything I listed about Wakefield Trinity remains 100% accurate. |
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| Quote ="bren2k"Well done - facts are such troublesome things aren't they, so probably best not to bother with any when constructing your counter-argument.
Everything I listed about Wakefield Trinity remains 100% accurate.'"
So what are the figures relating to the 300% increase?
You can produce whatever facts you like, but the fact that remains is that Wakefield are one of, if not the poorest club currently in Super League. |
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| Quote ="Coventry Warrior!"So what are the figures relating to the 300% increase?
You can produce whatever facts you like, but the fact that remains is that Wakefield are one of, if not the poorest club currently in Super League.'"
To date we've sold about 3800 season tickets compared with around 900 last year I think?
And yes, no one has any delusions of grandeur here - but still we're making big strides forward, unlike many other teams in the division who are currently stagnated or even receding. |
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| Quote ="TrinityIHC"To date we've sold about 3800 season tickets compared with around 900 last year I think?
And yes, no one has any delusions of grandeur here - but still we're making big strides forward, unlike many other teams in the division who are currently stagnated or even receding.'" We hear this sort of bravado every year from Wakefield, I'm sure you can forgive people for taking anything that comes from the club with a pinch of salt. |
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| Quote ="Richie"Which part of what Headhunter said was claptrap? Most of it seemed straight facts.'"
Absolute horse. |
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| Quote ="TrinityIHC"To date we've sold about 3800 season tickets compared with around 900 last year I think?
And yes, no one has any delusions of grandeur here - but still we're making big strides forward, unlike many other teams in the division who are currently stagnated or even receding.'"
300% increase is good, but its clear to see that the information has been manipulated to make it sound more impressive than it is. I suppose its a start though and hopefully we will see more progress from Wakefield over the course of the season to justify their place in Super League. |
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Quote ="Chris Dalton"Absolute horse.'" Really? Which part do you debate?
Is it that Celtic Crusaders' crowds in 2008 were higher than the majority of the league and comparable to the likes of Leigh and Halifax, despite it only being their third season in existence? Here's a link to the 2008 NL1 table with attendances if you'd like to compare: championshipstats.rlfans.com/Co- ... index.html
Is it that in 2008 Celtic Crusaders finished second in NL1, and lost the Grand Final in extra time? The link above shows the final league standings, and here is a match report from the Grand Final: news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 638206.stm
Is it that several of the players from Celtic Crusaders' fledgling youth system in 2008 have gone on to sign for established Super League clubs? The Crusaders Colts side won the Conference National in their only season having comfortably beaten Bramley in the Grand Final, that match was played as a curtain raiser to the aforementioned NL1 Grand Final. [url=http://www.crusadersrfl.com/page.php?id=556Here[/url is a match report from that day, and here are links to the articles regarding those players moving on to Super League clubs: menmedia.co.uk/manchesterevening ... -welsh-duo news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 211016.stm
Anything else you'd like to question about my post? |
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Quote ="Chris Dalton"Absolute horse.'" Really? Which part do you debate?
Is it that Celtic Crusaders' crowds in 2008 were higher than the majority of the league and comparable to the likes of Leigh and Halifax, despite it only being their third season in existence? Here's a link to the 2008 NL1 table with attendances if you'd like to compare: championshipstats.rlfans.com/Co- ... index.html
Is it that in 2008 Celtic Crusaders finished second in NL1, and lost the Grand Final in extra time? The link above shows the final league standings, and here is a match report from the Grand Final: news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 638206.stm
Is it that several of the players from Celtic Crusaders' fledgling youth system in 2008 have gone on to sign for established Super League clubs? The Crusaders Colts side won the Conference National in their only season having comfortably beaten Bramley in the Grand Final, that match was played as a curtain raiser to the aforementioned NL1 Grand Final. [url=http://www.crusadersrfl.com/page.php?id=556Here[/url is a match report from that day, and here are links to the articles regarding those players moving on to Super League clubs: menmedia.co.uk/manchesterevening ... -welsh-duo news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 211016.stm
Anything else you'd like to question about my post? | |
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It feels like 2008 all over again with the above post. The crowds in Bridgend were bumped up with a ridiculous number of freebies, and that was freely admitted by those who turned up (and they're still counted for the ones who didn't turn up either). The on-field aspect is surely disqualified by the fact that they had players who weren't legally allowed to play in this country? And I say that as someone who made the effort to go to Bridgend for the weekend, give them some of my hard earned and wish them all the best.
I don't think anybody has a problem with 'new' clubs climbing the ranks (if they do have a problem with that then they're frankly missing the point of sporting competition), but such progression has to be achieved on equal terms to the rest of the competing sides or it just gives a false picture and eventually the house of cards will collapse, as was witnessed in Bridgend.
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There are regular 'debates' on the VT about promotion & relegation, but I don't get whet people are really argueing over.
If Northampton, Skolars, Gateshead or any other 'development' club progress and get good crowds and results and earn their way into super league I don't think anyone would argue.
If Northampton do okay and get forced through into Super League above more deserving clubs we would, and should go mad.
Why we have to be thinking and hoping is that the RFL and SLE have learnt their lesson.
By the way, brilliant that Wakeys season tickets have gone up so much.
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| Quote ="headhunter"We hear this sort of bravado every year from Wakefield, I'm sure you can forgive people for taking anything that comes from the club with a pinch of salt.'"
Hmm, not so sure about that - we've not really had anything to shout about in recent years. This year however, compared with the same time last year we have:
A wealthy backer as an owner who has delivered on everything he's promised so far
Looked down the barrel of the SL gun and dodged the bullet
A huge increase in season ticket sales
Opened a new store in the city centre
Signed proven SL performers including Lauititi and Fox, along with some decent footsoldiers in Washbrook, Mellars and Kirmond. (ok nothing mindblowing there but a massive improvement on last years playing staff)
Of course all this will mean nothing if we fail to get this stadium pushed through, however barring some kind of bizarre twist of fate - we will find out the result of the inquiry around April and if successful we can move the diggers in straight away.
So all in all, definitely making progress and whilst I don't think we'll be troubling the 8 this year - I feel that we are laying good foundations for the future. |
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| Quote ="TrinityIHC"Hmm, not so sure about that - we've not really had anything to shout about in recent years. This year however, compared with the same time last year we have:
A wealthy backer as an owner who has delivered on everything he's promised so far
Looked down the barrel of the SL gun and dodged the bullet
A huge increase in season ticket sales
Opened a new store in the city centre
Signed proven SL performers including Lauititi and Fox, along with some decent footsoldiers in Washbrook, Mellars and Kirmond. (ok nothing mindblowing there but a massive improvement on last years playing staff)
Of course all this will mean nothing if we fail to get this stadium pushed through, however barring some kind of bizarre twist of fate - we will find out the result of the inquiry around April and if successful we can move the diggers in straight away.
So all in all, definitely making progress and whilst I don't think we'll be troubling the 8 this year - I feel that we are laying good foundations for the future.'"
Whilst it is great that these things are happening, lets be honest here, they are hardly efforts which should be applauded. Having a store and selling 4000 season tickets isnt impressive, better than before but still pretty pitiful. Yeah you have signed a couple of players but the squad is still built of some pretty poor quality overseas players and is a squad which will almost certainly be languishing in the lower reaches of the table.
Interesting that certain people are criticising Northampton for showing a bit of ambition, whilst lauding Wakefields pretty unambitious achievements. |
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| Quote ="Leyther_Matt"It feels like 2008 all over again with the above post. The crowds in Bridgend were bumped up with a ridiculous number of freebies, and that was freely admitted by those who turned up (and they're still counted for the ones who didn't turn up either). The on-field aspect is surely disqualified by the fact that they had players who weren't legally allowed to play in this country? And I say that as someone who made the effort to go to Bridgend for the weekend, give them some of my hard earned and wish them all the best.
I don't think anybody has a problem with 'new' clubs climbing the ranks (if they do have a problem with that then they're frankly missing the point of sporting competition), but such progression has to be achieved on equal terms to the rest of the competing sides or it just gives a false picture and eventually the house of cards will collapse, as was witnessed in Bridgend.'"
Depends what you mean by equal terms. Is it equal that a club like Leigh can fill their squad with players who have come through the academies of Wigan, Saints and Warrington because they are local, but Northampton wouldnt be able to because of distance from home would likely mean players wanted more money to move and they are limited by a salary cap set at a level which is beneficial for the heartland clubs? |
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| Quote ="Leyther_Matt"It feels like 2008 all over again with the above post. The crowds in Bridgend were bumped up with a ridiculous number of freebies, and that was freely admitted by those who turned up (and they're still counted for the ones who didn't turn up either). The on-field aspect is surely disqualified by the fact that they had players who weren't legally allowed to play in this country? And I say that as someone who made the effort to go to Bridgend for the weekend, give them some of my hard earned and wish them all the best.
I don't think anybody has a problem with 'new' clubs climbing the ranks (if they do have a problem with that then they're frankly missing the point of sporting competition), but such progression has to be achieved on equal terms to the rest of the competing sides or it just gives a false picture and eventually the house of cards will collapse, as was witnessed in Bridgend.'" I agree to an extent, and I agreed with your prior post on this topic. I was just pointing out some facts to a couple of people who felt the need to question my post without justification.
FWIW, the reason the club didn't succeed was nothing to do with any of the points you have raised. Yes, they were poorly run, but they faltered because the owner was a crook who pulled out and left the club in the mire, it's no different to what happened to Wakefield this year and the fact that they were an expansion club or 'didn't progress on equal terms' is of no consequence to their demise. |
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"Whilst it is great that these things are happening, lets be honest here, they are hardly efforts which should be applauded. Having a store and selling 4000 season tickets isnt impressive, better than before but still pretty pitiful. Yeah you have signed a couple of players but the squad is still built of some pretty poor quality overseas players and is a squad which will almost certainly be languishing in the lower reaches of the table.
Interesting that certain people are criticising Northampton for showing a bit of ambition, whilst lauding Wakefields pretty unambitious achievements.'"
I don't think many WTW fans would argue that the club has been through some pretty torrid times in recent years; we had an owner who was out of his depth and ended up making some crap decisions, putting the club into what looked like a terminal downward spiral.
That appears to be over now and we have a new owner who has driven a massive programme of positive change in a relatively short period of time; granted those changes have probably only got us to where we should have been ten years ago, but they are welcome nonetheless, given where he started from.
What sticks in the craw of many of us though, is the glib sense of superiority that many fans of other more fortunate clubs (and the media - that's another moan) display whenever they refer to WTW. I'm not sure how long it takes a RL fan to grudgingly acknowledge positive progress anywhere other than at their own club, but I'm sure it will happen one day. |
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"Depends what you mean by equal terms. Is it equal that a club like Leigh can fill their squad with players who have come through the academies of Wigan, Saints and Warrington because they are local, but Northampton wouldnt be able to because of distance from home would likely mean players wanted more money to move and they are limited by a salary cap set at a level which is beneficial for the heartland clubs?'"
Flipside to this of course is that every time a superstar comes through the regions academy ranks, they are snapped up by these clubs. Whereas If Northampton Demons produced a good player, the new Northampton club would have little or no opposition from any neighbours.
Swings and roundabouts really. |
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| Quote ="headhunter"I agree to an extent, and I agreed with your prior post on this topic. I was just pointing out some facts to a couple of people who felt the need to question my post without justification.
FWIW, the reason the club didn't succeed was nothing to do with any of the points you have raised. Yes, they were poorly run, but they faltered because the owner was a crook who pulled out and left the club in the mire, it's no different to what happened to Wakefield this year and the fact that they were an expansion club or 'didn't progress on equal terms' is of no consequence to their demise.'"
Oh it is. It was entirely predictable that they would collapse in SL as they didn't have anything like the revenue streams to compete and their owner had a track record of "doing a runner" when things got expensive.
Remind me which crook pulled out of Wakefield and left them in the mire. Nobody says that they are a well run club but what happened there was quite different from Crusaders (3 bankrupcies / administrations in 3 years ffs). Nor were Wakefield lent £700k that the RFL will never see again. |
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