OR they just dont rate him as highly as you..... and probably see sinfield as a better 13 anyway.

I thought when he returned from his lengthy ban, Hock could be a bolter for the England team in the 4N’s – for exactly the reasons you state, he is big, strong, a good runner and skilful

But even before his latest ban, I don’t think he did enough to earn a call up – he showed glimpses of good form but for me his defence was quite a bit away from where it should have been. I think he would have been shown up internationally this Autumn. That’s not to suggest he wouldn’t be worth a shout at the end of a full SL season (if he manages to stay away from the beaks)

p.s. agree that O’Loughlin is the best option we have at 13 – he is very well suited to play internationally where he has more size and strength than Sinfield etc but he has been very unlucky with the timings of injury and not has a chance to demonstrate this as much as we would have hoped

We have a coach who is a politician, tries to please everyone, he won't bring him in.

O'Loughlin has his faults but we will miss him because he is another leader on the field and you can never have enough of them when you're playing against the world's best.

Hock isn't good enough, isn't fit enough and has no form.

Other than that and his attitude, appearance and level of intelligence, he's perfect.

All true, if understated to an infinite degree.

Convoluted? No, not at all quite straight forward! You can't make your mind up if the England coach's opinions are valid or not. Or perhaps they are only valid when they suit your argument, and not when they don't.

Wonderful attempts at misinterpreting my point. You talk as if fans have always accepted the national coach's team selections as impeccable! I do not believe that O'Loughlin is the best English No 13. I do believe that Kevin Sinfield is a far superior player. I don't think I'm the only one with this view.

No you aren't the only one with this view. There are plenty other posters who's hatred for all things Wigan, distorts what little understanding of RL they have. Anyone who thinks that O'Loughlin missing the series isn't a bad loss must be nuts.

Your inferiority complex is showing. I have no hatred of Wigan - for instance I have no query with Sam Tomkins being selected for England and even agree that Joel is in with a shout for a spot in the forwards. I don't even 'hate' O'Loughlin - simply consider him a far more ordinary a player than do Wiganers.

Simon Grix has been out of this world for Warrington this year. 8 out of 1o each week. Massively underrated.

They don't, you just bore the ass of people.

You're entitled to your opinion, but it ain't mine.

Asgardian13 wrote:Your inferiority complex is showing. I have no hatred of Wigan - for instance I have no query with Sam Tomkins being selected for England and even agree that Joel is in with a shout for a spot in the forwards. I don't even 'hate' O'Loughlin - simply consider him a far more ordinary a player than do Wiganers.

You forgot to add the coaches from junior through to international level. Please excuse us if we DO find your view a little one-eyed.

Joel Tomkins could do some damage roaming about the place at 13. He runs great lines and if he gets in the clear as shown plenty of times he has the pace to do real damage.

If we want a grafter at 13- Heighington

If we want an attacking threat- J Tomkins

Joel has all the attributes of a good number 13. Strong (ask McGuire) plenty of pace and a decent tackler. It is not a bad call if it was club level. Not sure about doing it for 4 nations though (unless Tomkins has played there before in junior ranks).

Joels best period at Wigan (imo) was when he filled in for Lockers for few months due to injury. It was in 2008 IIRC.

sinfield has always been a much better player than o'thingymabob...... tonight was just another example of this.

people that think sean is a massive loss are deluded.

sinfield is a much better rugby player.... he always has been........ he reads the game so well..... great passer, tackler, kicker, captain,... wigan fans dont like to see it but sinfield is a much beter 13 than 'lockers'.

FACT

Lockers has made over 200 more tackles than Sinfield, scored 5 more tries, made more meters, more marker tackles, has fewer missed tackles and fewer errors.... all of that in one less game. O'loughling has also proved time and time again than he can make that killer pass and he makes the hard yards so well and puts in huge hits in defence hurting the opponent.

Sinfield is the better organiser and kicker. Sinfield is a brilliant player but he should play 9 IMO, not 13.

You are excused. Anyone's entitled to make a mistake.

When was the last time these England coaches won anything? perhaps that suggests their views are not to be taken as an endorsement of OL,s quality?

As has been said before he is one of the dirtiest players in SL - a real head shot merchant who was ideally suited to Maguire's take on how RL should be played.

He also has fewer GF rings!! - stats can be made to say anything, fact is OL's record pales into insignificance when compared to Sinfields - end of.

Are you having a laugh? Not even playing loose forward for his club. Should not make the mistake of playing people out of position.

I wish people would stop saying it is a ‘fact’ that Sinfied is better than O’Loughlin or vice versa... they offer their teams differing but valuable elements to their game. Sinfield is the hub of the team, he bosses them around the park and he has all the skills. O’Loughlin on the other hand is more of a workrate forward but he can also step up and throw a try scoring cut out pass or set up a try with a quality short kick. He is also more hurtful and consistent in defence

If I was pressed on who was the better player I would say that Sinfield has been the better at Super league level as he has been so consistent in some very good Leeds teams. But internationally, I would go for O’Loughlin over Sinfield as I think his game is more suited to the tighter and more physical matches