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| Quote ="Starbug"And what does W1g4n get out of this ? , apart from having 3 players on what could be dual reg ?'"
That Leigh may choose to never play.
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| Quote ="Starbug"And as I said , the dual reg and loan system takes care of all on field collaborations between SL and Championship clubs
So what off field collaborations do you mean considering that we are talking about what will usually be close neighbouring clubs ?'"
I don't know - I don't manage any clubs but I'm sure we can affiliate
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| My feeling on this is similar to my feeling on mergers...
If my club were at the bottom of the barrel, about to die and there was no way they could survive on their own, then I'd rather still have a club to support than no club at all.
However, I think it's important that if clubs are to become feeder clubs then there is some kind of clause in place that allows for someone to take the club out of the agreement again. In the case of Leigh, if there was no alternative (i.e. no buyer came in and the current owners couldn't fund them any more) and Wigan were to buy them and make them their feeder club, then should a time in the future come when a consortium could afford to buy the club back, the club should be forced to sell for a certain price.
The dual-registration system only allows for a certain amount of players to be loaned out IIRC. If the entire academy were in a feeder team, then it would help all of their development.
I posted a topic a few years ago about how the RFL should allow SL clubs to create their own feeder clubs in the Championship with their own identity separate from the SL brand as an alternative to taking over current Championship clubs (or National League clubs back when I suggested it). This would allow the Championship clubs to keep their identity as well as increase the size of the league so there are more games (so more revenue for clubs) which clubs have been complaining about. Would help the development of players, and in fact would be a brilliant club development tool as well. The SL clubs are effectively creating new clubs that could be bought out in the future.
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| Quote ="Starbug"And what does W1g4n get out of this ? , apart from having 3 players on what could be dual reg ?'"
They can learn good on field and off field procedures from the Leigh club and improve the relations between the two towns which will in turn generate merchandise money.
In football, if another club bids for a player from one of the affiliated clubs then the other affiliated team can make an offer that will automatically accepted.
So in practise if Hull make an offer for Jamie Ellis, Wigan then have the choice to do so and then the player can choose his future. Then they could use a loan back clause to loan him back to Leigh so that he gets experience at a club he knows well.
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| Quote ="Wellsy13"My feeling on this is similar to my feeling on mergers...
If my club were at the bottom of the barrel, about to die and there was no way they could survive on their own, then I'd rather still have a club to support than no club at all.
However, I think it's important that if clubs are to become feeder clubs then there is some kind of clause in place that allows for someone to take the club out of the agreement again. In the case of Leigh, if there was no alternative (i.e. no buyer came in and the current owners couldn't fund them any more) and Wigan were to buy them and make them their feeder club, then should a time in the future come when a consortium could afford to buy the club back, the club should be forced to sell for a certain price.
The dual-registration system only allows for a certain amount of players to be loaned out IIRC. If the entire academy were in a feeder team, then it would help all of their development.
I posted a topic a few years ago about how the RFL should allow SL clubs to create their own feeder clubs in the Championship with their own identity separate from the SL brand as an alternative to taking over current Championship clubs (or National League clubs back when I suggested it). This would allow the Championship clubs to keep their identity as well as increase the size of the league so there are more games (so more revenue for clubs) which clubs have been complaining about. Would help the development of players, and in fact would be a brilliant club development tool as well. The SL clubs are effectively creating new clubs that could be bought out in the future.'"
That 2nd part is an interesting idea.
Leeds for example set up a feeder club in Leicester who play in championship/championship one using for the most part Leeds youth players and players coming back from injury. When that club hits a decent level and becomes interesting to the local population it is sold and run as club in its own right and leeds set up elsewhere, sounds ideal in theory.
Big problem with that is the costs would be massive.
Another thing is why people think that clubs would be forced to be a feeder club. If Leigh dont want to and can afford not to. They dont have to. If Sheffield wanted to, they should be able but if they dont, they dont have to.
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| Quote ="justarugbyfan"I don't know - I don't manage any clubs but I'm sure we can affiliate
'"
You don't get it do you , Leigh are not in competition with Widnes,Fax,Fev or Batley , Leigh are in competition with W1g4n,Wire,Saints and Salford
I am reminded of this every time I see somebody wearing a W1g4n shirt this side of Ince
W1g4n would happily see Leigh go out of business and never play again , it would give them a chance to get another 1,000 or so fans
All Championship clubs are not in competition with each other except maybe Batley and Dewsbury , but all Championship clubs are in competition with essentially all SL clubs
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| Quote ="justarugbyfan"They can learn good on field and off field procedures from the Leigh club and improve the relations between the two towns which will in turn generate merchandise money.
In football, if another club bids for a player from one of the affiliated clubs then the other affiliated team can make an offer that will automatically accepted.
So in practise if Hull make an offer for Jamie Ellis, Wigan then have the choice to do so and then the player can choose his future. Then they could use a loan back clause to loan him back to Leigh so that he gets experience at a club he knows well.'"
How can improved relations improve merchandise sales ?
Sorry but SL clubs don't make ' offers ' for Championship players any more , they just take them
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| Quote ="Starbug"You don't get it do you , Leigh are not in competition with Widnes,Fax,Fev or Batley , Leigh are in competition with W1g4n,Wire,Saints and Salford
I am reminded of this every time I see somebody wearing a W1g4n shirt this side of Ince
W1g4n would happily see Leigh go out of business and never play again , it would give them a chance to get another 1,000 or so fans
All Championship clubs are not in competition with each other except maybe Batley and Dewsbury , but all Championship clubs are in competition with essentially all SL clubs'"
Well I was only using Wigan and Leigh as an example.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"That 2nd part is an interesting idea.
Leeds for example set up a feeder club in Leicester who play in championship/championship one using for the most part Leeds youth players and players coming back from injury. When that club hits a decent level and becomes interesting to the local population it is sold and run as club in its own right and leeds set up elsewhere, sounds ideal in theory.
Big problem with that is the costs would be massive.
Another thing is why people think that clubs would be forced to be a feeder club. If Leigh dont want to and can afford not to. They dont have to. If Sheffield wanted to, they should be able but if they dont, they dont have to.'"
Do it then
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| Quote ="justarugbyfan"Well I was only using Wigan and Leigh as an example.'"
No problem , affiliate with Gateshead then
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| Quote ="Starbug"How can improved relations improve merchandise sales ?
Sorry but SL clubs don't make ' offers ' for Championship players any more , they just take them'"
Because there could be joint merchandise. And each others merchandise could be sold at each others grounds.
These are only ideas - I'm not in charge of a club and I know nothing about running one. I'm just saying I believe affiliations could help some clubs
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| Quote ="Starbug"No problem , affiliate with Gateshead then'"
I think if we were to affiliate we would aim a little higher.
I would have said Widnes but they don't need our academy guys any more
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| Quote ="justarugbyfan"Because there could be joint merchandise. And each others merchandise could be sold at each others grounds.
These are only ideas - I'm not in charge of a club and I know nothing about running one. I'm just saying I believe affiliations could help some clubs'"
Why would Leigh want their fans to buy W1g4n shirts ?
Yes I can tell you know nothing about running a club
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| Quote ="justarugbyfan"I think if we were to affiliate we would aim a little higher.
I would have said Widnes but they don't need our academy guys any more
'"
By ' Affiliate ' you mean , tell what to do , the only benefit would be to you , not to the Champiobship Club , SL clubs don't give a flying f... About any Championship clubs , that includes yours
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| Quote ="Starbug"By ' Affiliate ' you mean , tell what to do , the only benefit would be to you , not to the Champiobship Club , SL clubs don't give a flying f... About any Championship clubs , that includes yours'"
This much is obvious. Which is understandable. They're businesses. In any feeder situation, their first thought will be, what benefit can we get? Their feeder teams are, if anything, business rivals.
So we're offering championship clubs 50k. I'm sure Super league clubs will flock to that. In return, Leigh get to pick up three players, which they already can on dual reg. They get to share facilities and staff. Facilities, maybe, but they're going to need very good facilities to house two teams and they're already paying them 50k for the privilige. An exchange of staff....for some reason I can't work out. It's not going to achieve all that much. And they share merchandise in the club shops, which will be completely useless because fans are only going to buy their own anyway.
It's the idea of the century. Sign me up instantly.
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| Quote ="Starbug"Do it then'"
Ok. Im not sure what Mr Hetherington or Mr Caddick will have to say about it nor the owners of Sheffield, and I wonder what the RFL would have to say about me breaking the rules but as long as I have your permission im sure it will be ok.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"Ok. Im not sure what Mr Hetherington or Mr Caddick will have to say about it nor the owners of Sheffield, and I wonder what the RFL would have to say about me breaking the rules but as long as I have your permission im sure it will be ok.'"
Cack idea then
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| We should start a poll, championship fans only, would you support your club if it became a feeder club. Straight yes or no.
When these fans and directors of super league clubs see the result maybe then they will remove their heads from their s.
Although, having said that, the predicted collapse of crusaders hasn't removed some of the most firmly wedged heads eh?
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| Quote ="freddies wig"We should start a poll, championship fans only, would you support your club if it became a feeder club. Straight yes or no.
When these fans and directors of super league clubs see the result maybe then they will remove their heads from their s.
Although, having said that, the predicted collapse of crusaders hasn't removed some of the most firmly wedged heads eh?'"
Maybe even another Freddie , asking Championship clubs fans if they would be happy watching their club play against SL academy/reserve teams masquerading as genuine Championship clubs ?
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| Its all laughable cack eh Mr Bug?
Pie in the sky ideas about how to further murder the championships whilst pretending its for the good of the game!
Good of the game nowadays translates to what's good for super league or RFL pet projects. Looking at play off attendances, challenge cup final attendances and the wreckage of all those failed clubs and championship gates falling with alarming regularity the good of the game is certainly being served!
You know what's worse? Seeing how many get so excited over that crappy kick and clap competition over in New Zealand. Somehow we are missing a trick if we can't keep the people who love the sport supporting the sport!
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"That 2nd part is an interesting idea.
Leeds for example set up a feeder club in Leicester who play in championship/championship one using for the most part Leeds youth players and players coming back from injury. When that club hits a decent level and becomes interesting to the local population it is sold and run as club in its own right and leeds set up elsewhere, sounds ideal in theory.
Big problem with that is the costs would be massive.
Another thing is why people think that clubs would be forced to be a feeder club. If Leigh dont want to and can afford not to. They dont have to. If Sheffield wanted to, they should be able but if they dont, they dont have to.'"
It all depends on what the club can get in return from it. If it gets them some decent players from an improved development in a higher intensity league then would it be worth it? On top of that, if the new club proves successful and someone wants to buy it then they've recouped some of their money on that as well.
I think RFL rules at the moment forbid a club owning another club though, so we wouldn't know who would or wouldn't want to anyway. I know that some clubs have looked at it in the past (I remember reading about Hull wanting to set up a club in Goole IIRC).
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| Something that should be looked at. 95% of CC clubs have no chance of ever reaching SL, most are barely surviving. Financial support and career pathways for jnr's from that area would benefit the CC club and a more intense environment for fringe players. good 21 year olds and returning from injury players would benefit the SL club. I'd love to see my club partner with York for example to the benefit of both clubs.
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| Quote ="JB Down Under"Something that should be looked at. 95% of CC clubs have no chance of ever reaching SL, most are barely surviving. Financial support and career pathways for jnr's from that area would benefit the CC club and a more intense environment for fringe players. good 21 year olds and returning from injury players would benefit the SL club. I'd love to see my club partner with York for example to the benefit of both clubs.'"
Can you not read ? , I had you down for being more inteligent than the post you just made , maybe FC should just have Rovers as their feeder club , they're closer than York
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| Yes I can and I see it could work if the SL club was fair in financially supporting the CC club and in assisting in other ways. TBF if York had the potential to be a SL club then I would not have used them as a example but reality is they will NEVER be a SL club. However being a financially stable sustainable club that is attracting top youngsters as they know they are in a SL clubs shop window whilst having the opportunity for kids from their area to play alongside seasoned SL pros would benefit them imo.
It works well in Oz with NRL teams linked to NSW cup or Q'land cup teams and I see no reason why it would be any different in UK. I can see where there has been traditionally rivallary ie Leigh and Wigan it wouldn't work but for more neutral partnerships without the history it wouldn't be a problem.
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| Quote ="JB Down Under"Yes I can and I see it could work =#FF0000if the SL club was fair in financially supporting the CC club and in assisting in other ways. TBF if York had the potential to be a SL club then I would not have used them as a example but reality is they will NEVER be a SL club. However being a financially stable sustainable club that is attracting top youngsters as they know they are in a SL clubs shop window whilst having the opportunity for kids from their area to play alongside seasoned SL pros would benefit them imo.
It works well in Oz with NRL teams linked to NSW cup or Q'land cup teams and I see no reason why it would be any different in UK. I can see where there has been traditionally rivallary ie Leigh and Wigan it wouldn't work but for more neutral partnerships without the history it wouldn't be a problem.'"
Not much use for Rovers then , they struggle to financially support themselves , never mind another club , sorry JB , its bollox , and just for the record , there are clubs IN SL who will never be SL clubs
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