Attendances do not make a good stadium. Neither do good corporate facilities. Even the two together don't make a good stadium.

Headingley has one good stand, the Carnegie. The South Stand has been condemned. The Western Terrace barely qualifies as a gathering area of any description (with views to match), and the Paddock is just about fit for purpose.

Sorry, good corporate facilities arent part of a good stadium? really? are you sure?

So out of the four stands, one is good, one is 'fit for purpose' one is being rebuilt, yet this doesnt mean that bar the other stand (which is fine bar the lack of roof which cannot be put on without raising the height of the stand, which cannot be done because it blocks the sunlight from the houses behind) the stadium is perfectly good?

Surely Batley should be a SL club based on that criteria!

Yes, of course they are [ipart[/i of a good stadium. But they don't make a stadium 'good' in isolation. The entire package of stands, corporate facilities, catering facilities, safety, unimpeded views, etc, etc makes a stadium 'good' and unfortunately Headingley is missing quite a few parts of that package.


Right at this moment it's a disgrace. You can roll out all the excuses for the Western Terrace but that fact remains it's barely fit for cattle. The South Stand isn't fit for cockroaches. The Paddock is ok, the Carnegie is excellent.

As a stadium it might be classed as a 'good' in a year or so, but not here and now.

Unlike Odsal, where all the stands and terraces appear to be in fully functioning and entirely acceptable condition.

Just out of interest, but what makes the Odsal terracing entirely acceptable and the Western Terrace not fit for cattle?

The South Stand, from a spectators point of view, is fine apart from the pillars.

The Paddock is fine, the upper north stand seating needs replacing and again pillars can be a problem. The North Stand will be replaced in the near future anyway.

The Carnegie Stand is superb.

Add in excellent corporate facilities and catering no worse than any other ground and I hardly think it means Headingley qualifies as a disgrace. In need of work, yes. A disgrace, not at all.

So which part are you having an issue with? The catering provision throughout the stadium is more than adequate, the open nature of the stadium means that this is the case for all the stands. There is nothing to impede your view in the western terrace, there are a couple of stanchions in the north stand, nothing in the carnegie stand, the southstand is being rebuilt so im not sure that classes as a disgrace. Safety? well its perfectly safe otherwise it wouldnt be open would it? so what exactly is it?

So other than the lack of roof which cannot be put on, what exactly is the problem with the Western Terrace which makes it barely fit for cattle (other than of course, that cows struggle with stairs)? The southstand is being rebuilt, im not sure what else you expect them to do to improve it. As you say, the rest of the stadium is perfectly good.

So other than the lack of roof on one end, what exactly do you want them to do to improve it?

"this is fine...except for..."
"that is also fine...just needs a roof..."
"fine...except for a few stanchions..."
"...is being rebuilt"
"...will be rebuilt at some point"
"...some seats need replacing"
Seems like there are problems all over the place.

Yep, a gleaming example of a wonderful stadium.

Fair enough.

You two identified half the problems for me. I don't need to say any more.

Nothing to impede your view in the Western Terrace except for the incredibly shallow terrace like Wakefield, which means it's difficult to see in front of the people in front of you. You can't see the dead ball line in that stand when it starts to get full.

A couple of stanchions in the North Stand?

At least 8, and at staggered levels. My view in there for the Carnegie 9s was shocking. And the wooden seats aren't comfortable at all. It looks old, dirty and decrepit.

And the South Stand has had to be closed in places it's that old. Stanchions everywhere, and the view from the back is also blocked by the roof so you can't see high kicks.

You can say what you like about what they are GOING to do, or why they can't do certain things, but until it is done, it means nothing. Headingley is currently a dump other than one stand.

I enjoyed our discussion the other year about Headingley, in your opinion, being a premier facility, and within a day or two the South Stand had been condemned!

you're inability to answer a simple question told us you probably couldnt.

Exactly.

Salford play in a quality premier facility...

...except it hasn't been built yet.

You both answered it for me.

I'd give up while your ahead, its only going to get tedious from here on in

Oh I am. He'll carry on banging on for a while as he does, not realising he asked and answered the question himself.

Eventually he'll realise Odsal is much better.

Yeah, it was funny, especially as it was then, and is now, a premier facility and was shown to be so.

Its funny when the idiots, the naive and those with agendas decide that even though the RFL have defined what constitutes a premier facility, if they imagine up their own definition it is just as meaningful.

No, i asked you a question. Your inability to answer it simply shows that you can't.

No-one has suggested its wonderful, which is why I ranked it around 7th in the league. Yet you still cannot backup your rather bizarre assertion that the Western Terrace is far and away worse than the terracing at Odsal.

Yes it has problems. It's over 100 years old, it's bound to have problems that a nice new stadium doesn't have. On the other hand it's ours, we get the money from it and we can play our playoff games there if we want to.

Where have i criticised Odsal? Odsal a perfectly good stadium, there are some improvements to be made but its perfectly acceptable.

In fact, i kind of defended Odsal earlier on.

Its quite funny to see these fans of clubs renting football stadiums criticising Headingley, especially when the fact it is owned and operated by the club means the clubs turnover and financial position embarrasses their club and has allowed Leeds to be ridiculously successful on the field while they have to move their play-off games or be at the whim of their senior partners.

What are the plans for the South Stand?

Please point me in the direction of where the RFL have stated that Headingley conforms to being a premier facility?

All I saw was this:

"Leeds Rhinos' Headingley Stadium was noted to be an older stadium but one that had undergone "significant improvements" with additional ones planned."

To me, that looks like the RFL recognise that Headingley isn't quite, but getting there. I find it hard to believe that a stadium that has a stand that is partly condemned and is having that stand and another stand replaced and cannot even do anything about the remaining stand could be classed as "premier" at this time.

knock it down and rebuild it with something similar with better views and more concessions.

I'd rather rent a Ferrari than own a Nova



Having lots of money, owning the stadium, lots of fans, lots of trophies, etc. is irrelevant to the fact that Headingley is a dump. They don't make Headingley any better at all.

Would you class Odsal as a premier facility then?

How many pathetic sweeoping generalisation statements are we gonna have like this one. Not just about salford but about ANY club. Are you aware of the community programmes run, the kids who are taught rugby skills, the improvements in academy etc that have happened at the Salford club over the years. Yes its a long way from perfect but rome wasnt built in a day. I think Salford will get in on potential and it cant be argued that in the new satdium (which is clearly now being built) the potential for the club is huge

On a general note, do we think a 3 year franchise is long enough? clubs like salford come up, and it DOES take a while to build crowds, community development, on field succes....yet after just 2 years of the franchise application has to be in.....and people seemed surprised that we havent got 10k crowds and won the challenge cup and are saying they should be kiciked out! SUrely people must understand it will take newly promoted clubs longer to achieve alot of these things....is 3 years a long enough period?

Erm...can I just be clear, the Odsal comments are a little bit of humour following gutterfax's anti-Odsal crusade earlier. Hence the wink.

Ok, so the The Western Terrace. Far too shallow resulting in poor views, too small, and as already established, no roof (regardless of excuses). I think even less room when the big screen is in town? Visiting fans are clearly not of any concern. But most of this has already been covered.

Not sure why the question of stadium ownership and on-field success has being raised. It doesn't detract from the poor overall quality of Headingley. I actually enjoy my visits, but that doesn't mean I think it's a particularly good stadium.