What benefit would there have been to Welsh RL for us to be waiting another 3-7 years? Crusaders failed once, it was the crippling debt from south wales which forced the move north and the administration. once. But what do people think would have happened if we had kept them in the lower leagues for another 3-7 years?

Would that be the crippling debt through paying wages to Australians on dodgy visa,s and running a full time squad in the NL ,s , with crowds of 500 ?

Maybe so. So what benefit would there have been to have kept them in the NLs.

Less crippling debt than they are currently racking up paying a team full of Australians in front of crowds that will eventually dwindle

So the choice was to crippling debt playing in front of 3-4k and bringing in SL tv money, sponsorship and visibility, or crippling debt playing in front of 500 in a semi-pro competition, bringing in less sponsorship and having less visibility.

Seems like promoting them was the obviously correct choice doesnt it.

Or they could have been like the SWS , actually playing real Welsh RL players , the Wrexham experiment is basically Gatehead revisited , and it will end up the same way , long term it will achieve nothing

I agree. It is a different scenario to someone like crusaders aswell, whereby there will be much higher travel expenses. Roughyeds idea about an irish select team is a good one, but its going to be very difficult to properly fund any type of team to play in the championship or super league.

5 years is wildly optimistic. It will fall flat on its face if assembled to fit it in that timescale.

Why does playing actual real welsh players (whose development was largely funded by crusaders btw), playing in a poorer quality stadium, at a lower level, with less support, less visibility, less sponsorship mean that SWS are firstly 'better' than Crusaders and secondly more sustainable than Crusaders?

Especially when we remember that SWS were only formed because of what Crusaders had built before they moved to Wrexham.

You mean developed by the RFL funded Welsh RL , who's office just happened to be in Leighton Samuels premises , so in fact the RFL were actually paying Celtic Crusaders players as well as advising them about which Visas to use to get them into this country , that inquiry is taking a long time , how many years has it been ?

They ruled on it, Crusaders were completely innocent in all but one case and received a lesser fine because of mitigation in the other.

ill ask you again "Why does playing actual real welsh players (whose development was largely funded by crusaders btw), playing in a poorer quality stadium, at a lower level, with less support, less visibility, less sponsorship mean that SWS are firstly 'better' than Crusaders and secondly more sustainable than Crusaders?"

They would rule on it , they were hardly going to punish themselves for telling a club how to break immigration laws , were they ?

Btw the RFL paid for the development , not Celtic Crusaders

The Wrexham Crusaders will not last unless somebody tips many millions into them for a long time , the SWS might eventually progress into a sustainable club because their costs are considerably less

Of course they would rule on it. Who the bloody hell else were you expecting to rule on it?
regardless, the pathways were only developed because of what Crusaders were doing.
as is their income. And the lose all the less tangible benefits of the visibility and sponsorship opportunities that SL offers.

It seems strange that you(among others) bang on for so long, so often about how clubs need to grow in the lower leagues and they need to take things slowly but seem to struggle so obviously to explain why you believe this is the case and how the clubs and game are helped by it.

So you admit , the RFL colluded with Celtic Crusaders to break UK immigration laws

So you admit the Celtic Crusaders did NOT pay to develop Welsh RL talent

Their income is less , but they are developing Welsh RL talent , unlike the Wrexham Crusaders , who are just a team of Australians taking money out of the game

I can't but admire you for continually arguing with someone who is obviously as stupid as he appears to be

No, i did no such thing, That would be a ridiculously slanderous allegation for which I have seen no evidence whatsoever.
No, i didnt. I simply bypassed your usual nonsense. I dont want to get into an argument about the exact payment details of the WRL and Crusaders. It is simply a fact, whichever way you are trying to spin it today, that without Crusaders, SWS wouldnt exist, and the players playing for them likely wouldnt be playing the game, and certainly not at the level they are at.


And paying welsh talent somehow means this money comes back in to the game?

You still have not been able to put one single, meaningful, logical reason why you believe that it is better for the game, and for the club that Crusaders had, and a possible irish franchise spend a long period of time playing Semi-pro RL rather than Pro RL, or why SWS playing at a lower level, with lower visibility, lower support, less sponsorship, in a poorer stadium is better or more sustainable.

Playing and developing Welsh talent is surely the whole point of having a Welsh club?

Its not the whole point, but it is a big one. And we should see Crusaders bringing through the best welsh players into an SL enviroment over the next few years

If they last that long

Of course it is, thats the whole point.

Which of course they would, and they would certainly be able to bring players through into an SL enviroment if only they had less visibility, lower crowds, less sponsorship, in a poorer stadium and didnt play at SL level apparently.

So can we just accept that you dont really know of any good or logical argument as to why "actual real welsh players (whose development was largely funded by crusaders btw), playing in a poorer quality stadium, at a lower level, with less support, less visibility, less sponsorship mean that SWS are firstly 'better' than Crusaders and secondly more sustainable than Crusaders?"

No more than a side from Hull existing to play and develop talent from East Yorkshire