Did the ban specify this though? If so, then, even though I am a Wigan fan, he should serve it out.

even if it does get rejected. What stops wigan having a chat with his personal trainer and informing them what hock needs to do?

I think the good work hock has done within education will look good for him here. Madge will certainly improve his game and a firing gareth hock will be incredibly dangerous to handle for the aussies in the autumn!

Should that include a ban on alcohol, then?

I agree with this.

If not a life ban then the punishment should be more severe. It's baffling the punishment for recreational drug use and performance enhancing drug use is the same

You think that those things are 'unhealthy', do you?

I voted no

Two years for a non performance enhancing drug is very harsh in the first instance but he has a ban so he should be made to see it out

The RFL don't decide the outcome but they have been asked by Wigan to arrange it and have accepted as they have to. They are the governing body and if a club wants to take it to court then they have the right to.

why should he not train ?

its a playing ban , i would of much prefer that hock went schools/junior clubs for 1 year preaching the lows of drugs in sports and earning a early reprieve . i don't care for the man or wigan but i care for my sons who have learnt nothing from this.

Quote ="Mutley Cat"why should he not train ? its a playing ban , =#800000i would of much prefer that hock went schools/junior clubs for 1 year preaching the lows of drugs in sports and earning a early reprieve . i don't care for the man or wigan but i care for my sons who have learnt nothing from this.'" www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/ma ... k-drug-ban Quote But before all that he faces other challenges that he would never previously have countenanced – and which still, he concedes, cause him far more anxiety than the prospect of being belted by an Australian forward. =#800000On Monday, for example, he will address 15 teenage girls from the Manchester creative and media academy about lifestyle choices and where he went so badly wrong, as part of a rehabilitation process instigated by his club.'"

Quote ="Mutley Cat"why should he not train ? its a playing ban , =#800000i would of much prefer that hock went schools/junior clubs for 1 year preaching the lows of drugs in sports and earning a early reprieve . i don't care for the man or wigan but i care for my sons who have learnt nothing from this.'" www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/ma ... k-drug-ban Quote But before all that he faces other challenges that he would never previously have countenanced – and which still, he concedes, cause him far more anxiety than the prospect of being belted by an Australian forward. =#800000On Monday, for example, he will address 15 teenage girls from the Manchester creative and media academy about lifestyle choices and where he went so badly wrong, as part of a rehabilitation process instigated by his club.'"

He should do the full 2 years, once done and he's served his time then he should be given a fair chance to continue his career and no further sanction or discrimination for his offence.

Incidentally cocaine is a stimulant and would be performance enhancing in a physical sport like rugby so he was gaining some benefit and cheating. Its on the banned list for this reason.

Although it is cheeky of Wigan to ask for an early start, at least they did. Unlike another club which has a de-registered player being remarkably close to training sessions.

thats very encouraging but i would of preferred gareth to of been on a tour of lancs/yorks/manc/cheshire/cumbria/ect vising heartland set ups were he was recognized instead of 15 teenage girls who with all due respect may know not a jot about the sport.

He should serve his two year ban before he can train with any super league club. He's done the crime and should do the time.

I've nothing against hock coming back or nothing against Wigan wanting him back but rules are rules and hock should serve the two year ban fully.

Bit sexist innit?

I think that some people on here need to remember the Terry Newton situation. Yeah what good the rules did for him. It’ll be a very petty circumstance if Gareth has to serve it off the field all because a few self-righteous rugby league supporters.

Well said

But at the same time Damo, the RFL can't leave cocaine use unpunished can they?

Why is it for the RFL to do so? we have laws in this country, for all other offences we leave it to the judiciary, why make an exemption in this case?

If there was a suspicion of cheating or performance enhancement we can deal with that separately. But why is a sport governing body moralizing on what is accepted by everyone to be recreational drug use?

Cocaine is just frowned upon in society. I don’t agree in drugs as I don’t take any myself. But people should have a choice in what they want to take. Obviously if that use becomes a danger to either that person or other people – THEN someone should step in. For example performance enhancing drugs can really lead to the damage of other people. For example, as much as I’d love to see Willie Mason playing the game on steroids - I know it’s not practical because it would be extremely dangerous.

By the sound of things Gareth Hock just did a bit of sniff alongside a bit of drink. Both of them are just as bad – one is just deemed worse than the other because of the law in this country. Most of our top sportsmen have had drinking problems. Football is probably the best documented example of all that.

Finally I think that recreational and performance drugs should be treated differently because of what I've said above. All the RFL have done by banning Gareth Hock is tried to look morally correct. Pretty Ironic when we have Micheal Monahan playing the game over here as well!

Cocaine does have performance enhancing effects:

"[iCocaine increases alertness, feelings of well-being and euphoria, energy and motor activity, feelings of competence and sexuality. Athletic performance may be enhanced in sports where sustained attention and endurance is required. Anxiety, paranoia and restlessness are also frequent. With excessive dosage, tremors, convulsions and increased body temperature are observed[/i"

A small snippet from [urlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine[/url

Well when Gareth Hock has been found guilty of using cocaine to enhance performance we can discuss that. But he hasnt, he was guilty of using it recreationally, so it is irrelevant.

[iA bitter, white crystalline xanthine alkaloid that is a psychoactive stimulant. An Ergogenic aid used to increase a persons potential for mental or physical labour, A study conducted in 1979 showed a 7% increase in distance cycled over a period of two hours in subjects that consumed the drug compared to control subjects. Other studies attained much more dramatic results; one particular study of trained runners showed a 44% increase in "race-pace" endurance, as well as a 51% increase in cycling endurance, after a dosage of 9 milligrams per kilogram of body weight

A reduction in serotonin levels when caffeine use is stopped can cause anxiety, irritability, inability to concentrate, and diminished motivation to initiate or to complete daily tasks; in extreme cases it may cause mild depression. Together, these effects have come to be known as a "crash". Caffeine dependency with a wide range of unpleasant physical and mental conditions including nervousness, irritability, anxiety, tremulousness, muscle twitching (hyperreflexia), insomnia, headaches, respiratory alkalosis, and heart palpitations.[108[109 Furthermore, because caffeine increases the production of stomach acid, high usage over time can lead to peptic ulcers, erosive esophagitis, and gastroesophageal reflux disease.[110 Caffeine may also increase the toxicity of certain other drugs, such as paracetamol
[/i

a little snippet of information about caffeine there for you.

There are lots of reasons why players say they have taken illegal substances, whether to "feel good" or "cure a cold" or because "the trainer said so". If a by product of that is possible performance enhancement then I would suggest it is relevant unlike your "snippet" about the legal substance caffeine (although it is interesting).

and everyone has accepted that Hock's use of Cocaine wasnt performance enhancing, or an attempt at performance enhancement.

strangely your snippet contained nothing on the legality of cocaine only the physical effects. As did mine on caffeine.

The point you seem to have missed is that many everyday substances can be performance enhancing. The morality of performance enhancement isnt as black and white as you may wish to believe. Would you ban caffeine on the basis it can enhance performance? After all it is a reacreational drug and a psychoactive stimulant.

Isn't there an argument that cocaine can be used as a masking agent for other performance enhancing drugs?

Not that it matters - it's use is illegal and it is classified a performance enhancing drug by WADA and so he got his ban.

It's a 2 year ban from playing and training. Is the argument here that it would be easier for Hock to hit the ground running if he's allowed to train with the club before his ban is up? Well no sh*t sherlock, that's why it's a ban from playing AND training with the club - it's meant to be punishment.

Quote Terry Newton all you like - all that case shows to me is the danger of drugs and why people should be encouraged to avoid them, not that we should be more lenient. Newton knew what he was doing when he bought drugs at a service station, Hock knew what he was doing when he was shovelling coke up his nose in some grotty toilet or alleyway - both are punishable by a ban of defined term and thats that.

Surely we should look to prove that was case rather than just deciding so. Isnt there an argument that some rapists wear balaclavas, therefor all people who wear balaclavas should serve a prison sentence and sign the sex offenders register?

the rules being rules, doesnt by definition mean that the rules are useful, right, just, fair, or worthwhile.