One other option is to put Goulding at centre. He's been on the wing this season for Wigan but prior to that his career was spent at centre.
Goulding right centre and Cudjoe his wingman.
Joel T is a non starter, Westwood is now too bulked up, Clubb isn't good enough and shouldn't have gone.
My team,

S Tomkins,
Cudjoe, Goulding, Atkins, Briscoe,
Brown, Robinson,
Graham, Roby, Fielden,
Burgess, Ellis.
O'Loughlin.
Bench, Carvell, Lunt, Crabtree, Harrison.

At last!!

Someone else who talks sense!

Yes, Tuquiri shouldn't have played today,but then again he is from Fiji who probably shouldn't been picked for Australia in the 1st place,same goes for Petero,Willie Mason,Michael Jennings etc.

The depth of talent is so great they (the A.R.L) still dangle the Origin carrot for any quality south sea islander who plays in the N.R.L.

Attitude of we will have them so nobody else can,and then are critical of other countries lack of quality

I'd go:

1 Widdop
2 Goulding
3 Joel
4 Briscoe
5 Hall/Cudjoe - Depending on whether Hall has recovered
6 Brown
7 Sam
8 Graham
9 Roby
10 Fielden
11 Ellis
12 Burgess
13 O'Loughlin

14 Robinson
15 Westwood
16 Harrison
17 Crabtree

It's a real shame for Shenton, he had a great second half. Atkins needs dropping, looked like a fish out of water, then got injured. Joel Tomkins isn't my ideal choice for centre but he's strong and pretty fast, at least he would shore up the defence. I'm loathe to pick Brown because he's a poor defender but at least he looked lively and nearly scored, not like we're overwhelmed with half back choices. Griffin dropped because he did sod all. Fielden wasn't much better with his errors but Carvell would be no better.

Ellis? Gareth Ellis? In the centres? Jeeze you had some stiff competition but that has to be the most stupid comment here all weekend.

I like your starting 13, but I'd keep Westwood in the team. I thought he played well on saturday, at the least equal to Burgess/Ellis.
I agree with your inclusion of Crabtree, think he deserves a spot and could cause problems with his offload.
Wouldn't play Carvell.

S Tomkins
Cudjoe, Goulding, Atkins, Briscoe
Brown, Robinson
Graham, Roby, Fielden
Ellis, Burgess,
O'Loughlin

Crabtree
Griffin (not brilliant, but not the worst and probably better than Carvell)
Westwood
Lunt (interchange Hooker with Roby/Robinson).


Griffin keeps his spot purely because I feel that we need to have 2 props on the bench, and I think he's better than Carvell. I'd like to see Westwood stick to the back row, as I think he'll do best there.

The only other possibility would be a bench of Lunt, Crabtree, Westwood, Tomkins/Harrison, and then have one of the 2 backrowers interchange with Burgess, but when Burgess comes back on the pitch he plays prop.

To be fair to MB, Ellis used to play centre when he was at Wakefield

He also played centre for Leeds as well,and tbh he more or less runs a centre's lines in a game,maybe the coach should try him there.

I thought Tony Clubb was picked as a centre in this squad.......or is he only there to carry suitcases? Don't see the point in bringing a player on tour and then playing other people out of position because you don't think he can do a job for you.....very odd.

Ellis has, possibly, bulked up a little too much, too play centre. However, if Shenton is out injured, I can only see two or three options: Tomkins, a pacey/skillful backrower, but many are questioning his positional play, Goulding, looked far better when playing for Salford in the centres than he did for Wigan (not that I would use this for international recognition) and Ellis, but is he quick enough at international level. Some have mentioned Briscoe, but even when you consider his freakish strength I would still be worried about his lack of height!!

I would go for:

Backs

Tomkins - release him for the ties of organising the team.
Hall - If he's fit
Goulding - because we didn't take anyone better
Ellis - only because he can't be any worse than Atkins/maybe give Widdop a shot as I don't like young players being made scapegoats.
Briscoe - Needs to learn his potential
O'Loughlin - Really don't think he has the pace to be an international 6, but Brown definitely wasn't upto the job.
Robinson - One of our more dangerous players, so he's earnt another chance.

Forwards

Burgess - Played his best rugby for England last season at 13.
Westwood - Nuff said
Tomkins - Give him his chance and see if he can take it.
Graham - Still think he needs to get it out of his head that he's an extra stand off.
Roby - We've fallen along away since Cunningham/Newton/Lowes, but he is the best of a bad bunch.
Fielden - Got his critics, but is the most likely option to come good.

Bench

Lunt - because he can play hooker
Harrison - Same as J. Tomkins
Carvell - Has international experience and Griffin looked far too slow.
Crabtree -Should have played on Saturday

For me Clubb is not good enough and they should of picked Gleeson instead of him.

Playing players out of position has been GB/Eng downfall for years-Pan face, Scully, Sykes, Pryce to name a few

I'd go with:

Tomkins
Goulding
Cudjoe / Briscoe
Tomkins
Briscoe / Cudjoe
Brown
Robinson

Tony Clubb is exceptional....at sucking really bad.

How many yards of pace ago?

what this thread shows is why we shouldnt be so critical of McNamara...

how many different propositions have people put forward? and how many 'others' should have been taken?

it suggests we have either:

a) an exceptional group in which its hard to pick out the very best performer; or
b) a pretty average group, in which no one stands out.

we know which of those is true, but given how hard we're finding it to select the best option, how McNamara can be criticised so much is beyond me.

Macca's selection cant be criticised.

His coaching and strategy can - especially when its obvious that some players are being instructed to play in a certain way that is contrary to their usual game style.

Anyone picking O'loughlin at stand off needs to send their brain back to the manufacturer for scrapping, Brown may not have been the best choice, but he is a far better choice than a loose forward.

Not to mention that once Brown started playing his own game (rather than following Macca's instructions) he had a good influence, putting players into gaps, try scoring pass and controvertially had a try ruled out.

I am going to get shot for this but I think O'Loughlin to 6, yes I agree its shows exactly how poor we are in the backs but Kev Brown is simply not good enough at 6 and is better used at centre given thats where we are struggling with injuries. Our organisation was terrible against New Zealand so we need some changes there.

Robinson and O'Loughlin played 6 and 7 together in the reserve teams at Wigan together so they know each other as well as this O'Loughlin links up with Sam well for Wigan.

Sam has to play full back but I would try and fit Widdop in somewhere if Atkins or Hall are out. This way with Widdop on the field and things are not working out we can shift things round a bit and move Sam back into the halves and Widdop back to full back.

At the end of the day its a poor squad selection as we have very little options at 6 and 7 as it looks like Kev Brown and Robinson are Englands first choice.




Tomkins
Hall / Widdop (if is Hall injured)
Brown
Atkins / Widdop (if is Atkins injured)
Briscoe

O'Loughlin
Robinson

Fielden
Roby
Graham
Ellis
Westwood
Burgess

J Tomkins
Carvell
Lunt
Crabtree

Firstly O'Loughlin is a better 6 than Brown, that aint saying much I know but who else is there?

With Tomkin's at full back this would not matter too much as Tomkins is essentially a 6 chiming into the line at pace. O'Loughlin knows how to link up with Sam and bring out the best in him.

Either way we simply just need to play rugby by moving the ball from side to side if we do this next week I am not bothered what team we put out.

Sam
Goulding
Ellis
Widdop
Briscoe
O'Loughlin
Robbo
Fielden
Lunt
Graham
Westwood
Joel
Burgess

Harrison
Crabtree
Roby
Griffin

1. Sam Tomkins- needs to run at full back, will get tested with the high ball, will lead our attack from 1 and gives us a strike player
2. Darrell Goulding- keep him on the wing where he is in form.
3. Joel Tomkins- big and shows alot of agility, played centre in the second half at OT and can run some
devastating lines
4. Gareth Widdop- looked good when he went to centre on saturday
5. Tom Briscoe- again had a very good game on the wing.
6. Kevin Brown- needs to step up a level this week, needs to play like he did in the second half.
7. Luke Robinson- A very good game last week, we looked balanced when he went to 7.
8. James Graham- leads from the front well.
9. James Roby- Thought he was brilliant last week
10. Sam Burgess- Id run with him at prop, hes aggressive and will take them on up front
11. Gareth Ellis- I think we will look very threatening with ellis and joel tomkins down one side
12. Ben Westwood- Deserves to start had a very strong game
13. Sean O'Loughlin- keep him at 13, was brilliant, a beast in defence and strong in attack

14. Eorl Crabtree- Can be extremely dangerous off the bench offers more than griffin
15. Stuart Fielden- we need his experience Id have him off the bench though.
16. Shaun Lunt- Give him a go off the bench, strong defender.
17. Ben Harrison- can cover prop,loose,second row get him on the bench.

So you're saying that Macca's instructions to Brown were to ensure that he didn't put players into gaps or throw any try scoring passes?

My team next week would be:

Cudjoe
Goulding
Briscoe
Widdop (not man other options really)
Hall
Tomkins
Robinson
Graham
Lunt
Burgess (we need more gramebreakers in the middle of the field)
Ellis
Westwood
Flanders

Roby
Crabtree
Fielden
Harrison

I think there are too many chnages being suggested. You can't just start playing people out of position after one game.

Widdup
Hall
Cudjoe (Bit of speed can't hurt)
Atkins (Give him the ball for a change)
Briscoe
Sam T
Robinson
Graham
Roby
Burgess
Ellis
Westwood
O'Loughlin

Fielden
Crabtree
Lunt
Joel T

Brown I might play n the centre but really not good enough on Sat
Atkins was poor in defense but is biggest asset is attack and he didn't get the chane so I'd give him another go.

I agree with the pack there - I think we have to take advantage of the size and strength of Burgess for some forward momentum and prop is the right place for that

Westwood has played himself into a starting spot and I think Crabtree would provide some punch from the bench

Personally I would have Harrison on the bench to add some more size and work rate... probably in place of Fielden (his ball control is the real worry for me)

Looking at all the many different opinions from forum users regarding team selections/players/ tactics etc etc it truly is little wonder the England RL team couldnt win a chook raffle.

Thank god none of you are England coach


Or maybe one of you is?



Come on Steve McNamara.

Show yourself