Not at all, the club belongs in the west, that is where it has achieved significant success in the past.


Yes, because the club needs to rip everything they have done in the last 5 years and start again in another area.

looked at what I wrote, didn't bother to think about it, decided it was an attack on Widnes, and then accused me of making stuff up. As it happens, it was not an attack on Widnes, and nor was it made up.

If a few more people think that maybe they don't want to find themselves shown up as you've just been, then maybe we'll actually get an honest and thoughtful discussion, rather than the equivalent of monkeys throwing bananas at each other. It's not personal, but don't accuse me of saying things I didn't say or doing things I didn't do, or I'll happily send you a few more brickbats.

Instead of getting defensive and innacurately criticising my post, why not put forward an alternative view in which Widnes is likely to breach that apparent 6-7,000 ceiling of support, or expand its player development gene pool. Back it up with evidence or sound argument and I may even agree with it.

Quote ="Ceejames"And it looks like Quins may have got much much safer! cominoweb.wakefield.gov.uk/Plann ... nt=obj.pdf'" Didums - linky don't work! Evene when it did - it changes nothing. We will still be here to P you off!

Quote ="Ceejames"And it looks like Quins may have got much much safer! cominoweb.wakefield.gov.uk/Plann ... nt=obj.pdf'" Didums - linky don't work! Evene when it did - it changes nothing. We will still be here to P you off!

So missing out 2002 wasn’t selective? If you had done an overview of the whole SL period then yes you were correct and I’ll admit that. I hadn’t realized Wire’s crowds were that high and have actually dropped a little since 2005.

I clearly did read and think, the fact you ignored the other half of post relating to Widnes as a club, a business and our youth set up is not my issue.

Shown up? I am happy to admit that Wire’s attendances weren’t as close (in the latter years) to Widnes as I said but 2006 / 2007 certainly were and then you ignored the other sides so in essence no I wasn’t shown up.

I did put forward a view as to where our crowds were and yes I believe we will achieve them again, especially if a success on the field which we now have the financial clout to do so.

Sorry you can’t ignore half of a post and then say I didn’t argue my point. That my friend is being selective. I didn’t expand then as debate was about Quins and I didn’t want to make it about Widnes.

However, the view of Widnes don’t offer more than X, Y & Z just doesn’t wash with me as I feel under the new franchise system we could really thrive. Look at what a bit of funding has done for the likes of Warrington and Hull KR (Though with large financial losses). I see no reason why Widnes couldn’t do the same and reach similar hights to Warrington and with our academy well run and looking good there is also no reason why it would be a simple case of spending big on players as I feel we COULD get a set up similar to Leeds, Wigan and St Helens which would give us long standing sustainable success as we had many moon’s a go.

It's more fun then you would think

There is no doubting that Hull KR run at a significant loss. However this genuine issue has been exaggerated and I tire somewhat of seeing it repeated on here, feeding back into the loop. Maybe we deserve it for the 20 million away fans we claim, but that is at least mocked.

Got to admit I'd be interested to know that too. Whatever they're doing, if that was applied across RL, all clubs would be posting decent profits and I imagine that SL clubs (particularly) would be very attractive to investors. Actually, It would transform the game.

People can go to the Wakey council site and see the objection by Highways Agency along with the submissions from West Yorkshire Ecology (the comments re the Judicial review were interesting)and those on Spatial Policy etc. Pesky open access to documents.



You must have a very thin skin if you think other people could be P'd of by your efforts. If you think these objections do anything other than weaken your case and indirectly strengthen the Quins position you are deluded.

Naturally I think RL would be better served if the 'Yorkcourt stadium money' were allocated through the wakefield district directly enriching communities in wakefield, Featherstone and Castleford. Is that so bad?

Jeez give it a rest. Ken Davy's money would probably be better spent as well, given he is underwriting an GBP 800k loss to keep 7k of fans on cheap season tickets happy.

It has already been explained to you in fairly simplistic terms on the Wakey Board why your plans to allocate the "Yorkcourt Stadium money" are deluded.

For some reason you clearly have an anti wakey agenda, why else would you take such delight in any bit of information that appears to put a question mark over the new stadium development. If and I appreciate at this moment in time its a BIG if, the stadium gets the go ahead what on earth are you going to do - you will be suicidal.

If there was a better team to include, then sure. However, the threat of relegation is there to wield at any club in SL that is not progressing well, give another heartland club a chance to prove they can do better. If not, they may get swapped round next time.
I'd love for TO to get promoted, but they had a chance to show their credentials on pitch, but they haven't.

exellent post.
its a completley pointless exercise.

another exellent post.

So every heartland RUGBY LEAGUE supporter outside SL should just give up then? Forget dreams of seeing their side winning titles again?

Try and think outside this.

It IS possible.

Harlequins are, in the current stucture , probably one of the safest SL licencees.

There are reasons for this, some very obvious, some not so, but the RFL are "happy" at the moment.

There is change afoot.
Just THINK!!!

Clubs need to break away from SLE it's a joke.

and a stadium 'hanging by a thread' where legitimate organisations have legitimate concerns about the development.

I am highlighting facts that 'officials' at last nights meeting knew about but did not bother to share with supporters. The facts relate to a RL club and a SL licence. They are legitimate topics for a thread like this.

but which two clubs do you thing will be best place to enter that league in 2015 if they can find rich backers?just my opinion.

Warrington is indeed a very big town. This doesn’t mean that Widnes couldn’t match their crowd figures. Both Warrington and Widnes are both limited by the size of their stadiums and, I would hope, both clubs would be looking to fill them to capacity in the future.


Possibly but, unlike those clubs you mentioned, Widnes will be utilizing the full salary cap limit when recruiting the squad. Terry O’Connor confirmed this this week in the RL press. I’d say that adding a club that can do this would strengthen Super league.


Widnes did not go bankrupt until 2007.
This is a somewhat disingenuous post. Most clubs had poor attendances in those days. Other than the blip this season, Super League crowds have been rising steadily, in a way that they didn’t in the 80’s and 90’s. Widnes were still at Naughton park and largely aiming to bring in sport from the Widnes area only. This has now changed.



Then let me explain.

Widnes have an in-built advantage over some clubs, as they have no RL club on either their Southern or Western boarders. We are part of Halton, which includes both Widnes (Population: 57,663 in 2004) and Runcorn (Population: 61,252). This gives us a combined catchment area of approximately 118, 915. Both towns have the same council and own the Stobart Stadium Halton. Both towns read about the Widnes Vikings in their local paper, which are virtually identical and all the schools in the borough now play RL, due to the effort now put in by the club and Halton Borough Council - which also owns 10% of the club. Steve O’Connor has announced it as a stated aim that they intend to target Runcorn in a way that they have never before.

We now also have the Valhalla Foundation, which is developing its community relations through a number of projects and initiatives based in and around the surrounding areas of Widnes and Runcorn. They deliver rugby league core skill coaching within schools both during and after school. The after school coaching in particular is designed to culminate in a tournament where the children can showcase their new skills. There have also been several very competitive curtain raisers to first team matches at the Stobart Stadium following the work done within schools.

This is why we are a different proposition to what we once were, and it will be in a much better position to generate greater attendance figures and increase the recruitment of young players. This can only snowball if the club was in Super League, as the profile and interest in the club would be greatly enhanced across the borough.

Then we also have South Liverpool and the Wirral to target, which was also regarded by the club as an area they will target. Therefore, we are far from being locked into our own boarders. We are lucky enough to have access to, otherwise, untapped areas close by, where there is little or no competition from other clubs.

Wakefield, with a population of 76,886 in 2001(just over 19,000 more than Widnes) and Castleford with a population of 37.525 ( just over 20,000 less than Widnes), have much less room to maneuver and are in direct competition with each other outside their surrounding area. Despite this Castleford do very well, and seem to be winning this battle, and are talking about being able to fill a 15,000 seater stadium. If they can do that, then Widnes certainly can too.

I agree completely that, initially, Widnes' crowds will be average in Super League. Few clubs could come up from the Championships and match the big hitters of Super League in attendances immediately. Hopefully, over time and with a modicum of success, this will change.

Stones Bitter Championship.

Except Stones probably isn't as big as it was 15 years ago.

That was a reasonable post. Personally, I don't care if the next club with a 10,000 crowd comes from Halton or Hampshire. I just want to see more well-supported clubs challenging the relatively unthreatened group at the top. I have my doubts about whether Widnes can do it, but their plans sound sensible, and their new boss seems like he's finally moved Widnes's management forward, which was always the weakest part of the club.

Which clubs from where ?

You mean like the RFL just happening to change their own SL entry criteria for the season Castleford won the NL 1 GF ?

Yes facts are a bugger arent they

It would be interesting to see what crowds Warrington would have got if they had been hopping around the bottom of SL ?

Hang on a minute , so you are suggesting that The Giants spent money on their academy rather than the 1 st team , and that is why they finished bottom ?

If that is the case , how many of those players did they use in 2001/2 ?

rely upon less financial support from directors and the RFL report that as a bad thing ?

Very strange