The Bulls have been at this for years, they used to have pay for a bus with huge adverts for the Bulls on them in Huddersfield and have hoardings all through Batley and Dewsbury.

I remember one day driving through Batley on a sunday aft, Batley were at home but all the RL shirts I saw were people in Bulls shirts going towards Odslum.

then again I remember being in a pub in huddersfield the night of a Grand Final, the train emptied out and the pub on the station filled with people in Leeds shirts - literally scores of them and all from Huddersfield but supporting Leeds

So its frustrating when attendances are used to attack clubs (and not just my own) by people who havent got a clue of the realities of where the support for the top clubs comes from.

See below (did you forget what you wrote

)



If you want a continued debate, I will, but we are going OT.





Hmmm... lets see.... Caisley ridiculed Cougarmania in the press, apparently did all he could to keep us out of SL, then took our ideas as his own ...... yes pirated and raped seems fair to me.

Interesting article:
[urlhttp://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/rugby-league/super-league-in-debt-to-cougars-crazy-originality-482786.html[/url

Another interesting article: Read from Mr. Gary Waller down
[urlhttp://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199495/cmhansrd/1995-04-26/Debate-3.html[/url

It should also be noted i know quite a few Dons fans who go watch Cas/Leeds/Bradford when the Dons aren't at home on the same day.

Ironic that they were called the "Cougars" as they nicked all their ideas from the "Leeds Cougars" american football team. Who nicked their ideas from the NFL, which nicked it's ideas from college football.
Can you guess where the Leeds Cougars played their fixtures in the 80s?

Its untrue that the Cougars nicked their name from anyone - it was all down to a vote by fans. It is true, however that there are numerous other teams with the Cougar name and I'm sure that a search on Tigers, Warriors, Vikings, Wildcats etc etc etc would bring up similar numerous hits.

There was an interesting "gotcha" on the Keighley directors by, I think, local news Look North. They set up a meeting with a supposed rich arab who wanted to invest millions, on condition that the club name changed to Keighley Carmells (pronounced Camels

). I remember seeing the interview and the expression on their faces was priceless. They still tried to persuade him to part with the cash though. (and unlike Caisley they did't try to sue for misrepresentation they laughed instead

)

It is true that Keighley looked to American football and other successful sports for new ideas - why wouldn't they???

I didn't say they nicked their name.

You said Keighley nicked their ideas - one of Keighleys ideas was to create a catchy name and remarket themselves. I was saying they did not nick it from Leeds Cougars, whoever they are... is that ok with you



What other ideas did they nick ... can you provide a link???

Teams have been giving themselves nicknames for years. "Rovers" "United" "City" even Saracens and Harlequins.

If Keighley didn't nick their ideas, are you suggesting that they came up with the idea of a nickname, marketing and cheerleaders all independently?

Just because someone else did something before, does not mean that everyone else "nicked" their idea and "shafted" and "raped" or "pirated" them. They were no more Keighley's ideas than they were the ideas of the Leeds Cougars or the Bradford Bulls.

It's funny and pathetic in equal measure to read the odd Keighley fan still carrying around a sequoia-sized chip about some mythical wrongs done to his team by them nasty big-city neighbours.

"Cougarmania"? "Invented"? FFS what bullcrap (pun intended). 1. There are no Cougars in Keighley. 2. The Americans clearly invented match razamatazz long ago and the Cougars (to their credit) took the general idea and ran with it. But for them to then claim some form of patent on it, or even whinge that other clubs went on to do broadly similar razzamatazz stuff, is just pathetic! I'm not knocking Keighley's efforts at the time - on the contrary - but even in those days, their effort, on a scale of 1-10, would have rated about 0.25 when compared with even your average American college football team. The idea that a little minnow of a club from an obscure little town "invented" any of this is truly laughable.

About as laughable as the notion that some innocent, who currently pays to watch Keighley and somehow has seemingly no idea of the existence of the big, bad Bulls, or else inexplicably never yet figured out that he could go there if he wanted, would suddenly be forever torn from supporting the Cougars by the sight of a passing bus.

How are the ST sales going for the Bulls-are likely to make 10000?

Rugby League and Free Market Economy. In the same sentence.

You really are having a laugh.

Wow! Have they really.



I don't know what [itheir[/i ideas were, can you provide a link then we can debate it?



Can you honestly say that Bradford Bulls have gone down the Bullmania route without Keighley having first done cougarmania?? Would RL have revitalised itself like it did??

I am not suggesting Keighley invented anything, their directors openly admitted they looked at a whole host of other sports for ideas. What keighley did, and did it brilliantly, was to bring something new to RL at a time when RL was at a dead end.

I can remember the top SL clubs coming to Keighley - they all commented how wonderful and refreshing this approach was - except Bradford, who said we were a disgrace. Don't think I need to say any more



I have no issue with other teams copying what Keighley did. It's inevitable that if you have a good idea it will be replicated.

I think my previous attachments say it all.

Quote ="Dreamer"Wow! Have they really.'" Yes. Keighley weren't the first! Quote ="Dreamer"I don't know what [itheir[/i ideas were, can you provide a link then we can debate it?'" www.google.com Quote ="Dreamer"Can you honestly say that Bradford Bulls have gone down the Bullmania route without Keighley having first done cougarmania?? Would RL have revitalised itself like it did??'" Yes. Have a look at where the Leeds Cougars played in the 1980s. IIRC, I suggested you do that several posts ago. Quote ="Dreamer"I am not suggesting Keighley invented anything, their directors openly admitted they looked at a whole host of other sports for ideas. What keighley did, and did it brilliantly, was to bring something new to RL at a time when RL was at a dead end. I can remember the top SL clubs coming to Keighley - they all commented how wonderful and refreshing this approach was - except Bradford, who said we were a disgrace. Don't think I need to say any more '" I have no interest in what an idiot of a Bradford chairman thought. If only it had been brilliant enough to get regular five figure crowds. How different could things have been then? Quote ="Dreamer"I have no issue with other teams copying what Keighley did. It's inevitable that if you have a good idea it will be replicated. I think my previous attachments say it all.'" Nobody copied Keighley. They're copying The Cleveland Indians, or whoever came up with such an approach a hundred years ago. If you don't have an issue, why are do you claim a team that copied (you claim) the ideas that Keighley copied from someone else to be pirating and raping those ideas? Those are quite emotive words for something you don't have an issue with.

Quote ="Dreamer"Wow! Have they really.'" Yes. Keighley weren't the first! Quote ="Dreamer"I don't know what [itheir[/i ideas were, can you provide a link then we can debate it?'" www.google.com Quote ="Dreamer"Can you honestly say that Bradford Bulls have gone down the Bullmania route without Keighley having first done cougarmania?? Would RL have revitalised itself like it did??'" Yes. Have a look at where the Leeds Cougars played in the 1980s. IIRC, I suggested you do that several posts ago. Quote ="Dreamer"I am not suggesting Keighley invented anything, their directors openly admitted they looked at a whole host of other sports for ideas. What keighley did, and did it brilliantly, was to bring something new to RL at a time when RL was at a dead end. I can remember the top SL clubs coming to Keighley - they all commented how wonderful and refreshing this approach was - except Bradford, who said we were a disgrace. Don't think I need to say any more '" I have no interest in what an idiot of a Bradford chairman thought. If only it had been brilliant enough to get regular five figure crowds. How different could things have been then? Quote ="Dreamer"I have no issue with other teams copying what Keighley did. It's inevitable that if you have a good idea it will be replicated. I think my previous attachments say it all.'" Nobody copied Keighley. They're copying The Cleveland Indians, or whoever came up with such an approach a hundred years ago. If you don't have an issue, why are do you claim a team that copied (you claim) the ideas that Keighley copied from someone else to be pirating and raping those ideas? Those are quite emotive words for something you don't have an issue with.

Oh dear, has someone upset you? Never mind, go for a lie down and mummy will bring you a nice cup of warm milk.

If you actually bothered to look you would see that my post was in response to this:



My point being that Cougars were revolutionary in terms of RL, Bradford and others copied.

I don't believe I said Cougars invented anything and as for carrying a chip, well I am completely indifferent to the Bulls, but I don't see why that should stop me from entering into a debate where relevant.

Keighley may be "minnows" but better than "that slum city next to Leeds"



As for your last paragraph I neither said nor implied any of that, I beleive that was the OP - do keep up. Now trot on, there's a good boy.

Quote ="Richie" www.google.com Yes. Have a look at where the Leeds Cougars played in the 1980s. IIRC, I suggested you do that several posts ago.'" Don't you think your argument looses strength when you make people do your searching for you? Quote ="Richie"Nobody copied Keighley'" Nearly all of RL copied Keighley. I have already said, more than once, that Keighley got their ideas from many different sports, but were the first to introduce it successfully into RL. RL would not have gone down that route without the example that Keighley set

Quote ="Richie" www.google.com Yes. Have a look at where the Leeds Cougars played in the 1980s. IIRC, I suggested you do that several posts ago.'" Don't you think your argument looses strength when you make people do your searching for you? Quote ="Richie"Nobody copied Keighley'" Nearly all of RL copied Keighley. I have already said, more than once, that Keighley got their ideas from many different sports, but were the first to introduce it successfully into RL. RL would not have gone down that route without the example that Keighley set

I would suggest "raped" is a very offensive and slanderous term, and a strange insult for someone who is so indifferent....

Not at all. People learn more effectively when they are helped to get the answers rather than spoon fed them. I'll point you in the right direction, but I won't spoon feed it to you.



So why do you think they all copied from Keighley, rather than copied from the Cleveland Indians, New York Yankees, Leeds Cougars, Saracens, Harlequins, Birmingham Bulls, London Monarchs, Dallas Cowboys, etc, etc, etc?
An opinion piece from Dave Hadfield carries no more weight than an opinion from a poster on this thread.

My next door neighbour has signed up to the Bulls Pledge. He's a Rhinos fan. I also know a couple of Giants fans who have signed up. None of them have switched allegiance. They would be happy to pay £60 to cover the cost of their team's fixture at Odsal and take in a few other games when their team aren't playing, when they'll be cheering for the away team. Similarly I usually attend a few Rhinos and Giants fixtures each season when the Bulls aren't playing and would probably sign up to a pledge if they introduced it.

If some Batley or Keighley fans also attend a few Bulls fixtures when their team aren't playing, is it such a big deal?

The fact that people can enjoy this sport so much that they'll not only attend their own team, they'll watch a nearby team too is marvellous news.

See here: [urlhttp://www.google.co.uk/[/url I'll point you in the right direction, but I won't spoon feed it to you

There's nothing wrong with watching other teams - the more the merrier. I occasionally watch Internationals, Superleague, Championship, Academy and Amateur. I've even watched Bradford

That may well depend on which definition of "raped" you are looking at.

I would normally provide a link to a dictionary but a forum expert on psychology and learning needs analysis has told me not to spoon feed



However, I would suggest that being treated improperly and abusively is pretty close to the comments made by some at the time.

Being indifferent does not mean unable to make comment.

Checked it. Can't find a single thing showing anyone else copied from Keighley.

I'll help you out on those Leeds Cougars, as it's so long ago it was both pre-Keighley Cougars and pre-internet.

They played at both Bramley's McLaren Field ground and Bradford's Odsal stadium. The Leeds Cougars had a trendy nickname, cheerleaders, bus advertising (remember the metro pass ad?) demo games at public events, PAs at games, pre-game and in-game music. What they did was quite the normal thing in their league. Perhaps some RL clubs got some ideas from there?

Copying an idea from the Chicago Phoenix = improper abusive treatment of the Keighley Cougars

so does this mean you will all back us up when we kick off about arriva buses driving through widnes, with huge pictures of saints players and a ticket hotline number runnning down the side? because they go straight through and around widnes every 30 minutes.