Ha, what's that name again? You don't seem to have found space in your post to include it.

Exactly how it should be done from here on out. Of course if a wealthy backer came in and wanted to do it satellite expansion style I wouldn't complain.

Just a bit on the issue of ownership. Lenegan is the majority shareholder (65%), David Hughes the only other unless there's been a very recent change. The ownership is nominal, I could afford to buy Lenegan out, he owns 65 shares at £1 each. I don't think he'd sell to me though, it needs someone who'll be willing to stump up the odd £1m per year.

Lenegan has stopped putting money in (not allowed as I understand it) so Hughes is standing all the financial losses. He's a wealthy man obviously but I don't know how deep his pockets are.

I've no idea, I have forgotten.

What was your idea, Harle13uins or something?

Nearly, Harleqxiiins. Rolls off the tongue. :p

So what happens if the football league do as they have mentioned in the press this week and stop dual sports on any football ground? Where would that put the clubs that share with footy?

Income £1.767m
Costs £3.586m
Net Loss £1.819m

Costs were over double their income.

Insolvent balance sheet = net liabilities approx £4.5m.

Go figure?

It is the Premier League not the football league that is proposing that. The issue would only impact on the soccer clubs (Wigan Athletic and Hull City) who would not be able to get back into the PL once relegated. The RL clubs cannot be evicted, if anything the football clubs would be forcibly demoted. There are threads on that subject on various boards including this one. Read those threads to find out why that is no worry for RL clubs.

absolutely agree that this should be the way for expansion. yes of course these clubs exist and are developing, however if one of them is jet propelled into superleague all that development goes out of the window, the playing and coaching staff are wholesale changed and replaced. just look at what has happened in wales.
how many london juniors break into SL (prior to this season), where will the players come from?
all i am saying is that development takes time and rushing things forward too soon can actually have a negative effect.

Who
Where
Who will pay
Who will watch

Its been tried and failed-forget it.

Interesting, thanks. Very hard to see where that money is being spent.

same questions can be applied to every expansion suggestion

This is all very well, but what has it got to do with Quins ? They're a club with 30 years of history, who have played in lower divisions and upper divisions, as semi-pros and pros. Anyone can, and plenty do, complain about Crusaders being fast-tracked in (although their predecessors also played in lower divisions), but Quins/London are just not in the same boat. No jet propulsion, or indeed even rowing up the wrong creek, involved.

IMO one of the reason's why Quins are failing is because no-one except the RFL seems to want them to work out! Every opputunity, loss, bad attendance is jumped on by the same old anti-expansionists.

If the whole of RL supported Quins (by that I don't mean switch allegiances), and supported the growth for the game in London, maybe, just maybe they'd fair slightly better.

so how would the support of lancastrians & yorkshire men living 300miles away help quins rl?.

Support doesn't just mean turning up every other week, but godknows we could do with a few.

So how exactly can the RL community help the Quins ? , and how does the opinion of a few thousand grumpy northerners contribute to Quins failure to draw crowds ?

Assume they must be close to the salary cap - if nothing else cos of London costs. Add on Employers' NIC (amount depends on what tax schemes they may be using for overseas players).

Costs of all the other club staff, including of course the coaching staff
Costs for use of the ground
Matchday costs (incl stewarding, security, entertainment...)
Office and admin costs
Marketing
Cost of goods sold
Travel and accommodation (no small cost when every away game is a long journey)
Audit, legal, professional fees
Transfer fees (if any)
Insurance
Other player-related costs (kit...laundry...meals...training...)

- just quick ones I can think of.

Its not the costs that are the problem - they don't seem out of line at all for a SL club, and are much less than those of various other clubs. Its the income - or lack of it. Apart from the Sky money and gate receipts, looks like they earned stuff all from corporate or sponsorship or merchandising, based on that figure.

Incidentally, those are the numbers for the 2008 season. We won't know the 2009 numbers until end August.

I dont think the RFL would kick out Harlequins purely because they are a London/southern franchise

Despite being a self proclaimed flat-capper, I would be very sad if there was no longer a professional RL club in London. After 30 years they are part of the establishment. However, as an outpost they need lots of help and guidance from the RFL. Unfortunately the game is run by people who think they are visionary yet most can see they are blinkered and clueless. If the right direction had been given in the past, things mught have been different, now I fear the worst.

If the club does survive and is forced to relocate, what are the options? The roots of the game are working class and thats what should be targetted. To me they should pick one of the poorer areas, one without any raa-raa team and go b@lls out to build a community club. An alien concept to mssrs Lewis and co, but its the only way they will make a go of it. Its the approach the AFL are trying in Western Sydney and to me its the only way. So what about prospective locations, the East End perhaps?

if you take out quins and salford from SL, how much higher would the crowd average be?

people judge RL as a sport based on this.

also the lack of away fans means clubs lose income as well.

if you cant average at least 5000 then you shouldnt be in SL. or at least have growing crowds

salford have a chance of sorting their crowds out with a new ground but i cant see anything changing at quins

nothing at all to do with quins.
thread is titled IF quins fail.

personally hope they dont

No, they'd definately need some other reasons.

And would you like to explain how the opinions of a few thousand people 200 miles away from London is preventing people from going watching Quins ?

All it would take is a few hundred northerners assembled in the rhubard triangle, which is known to focus energy in the same way as a pyramid, only more northern, holding crystals made from coal and mystic charms made from steel and fish heads all singing Kumbaya lead by Uri Geller while feasting on pattie and chips to create the right aura for Quins to succeed.

And you won't even do that to support an ailing RL club. Shame on you!