Exactly.
At wire from three home games I think we're averaging about 11,500 and thats with playing Quins and Crusaders.
I reckon you'd get more if the south stand was bigger

They manage perfectly well in the SPL


Seriously though, that must be the main aim... to have a professional French league, whether we'll see it within the next millenium though is another question...

Can't you tell that there is a 'feel good' factor with Lefty here.

All fans are important and you cannot beat a good following of away fans in any particular sport.

Warrington is a big Town, and should be averaging at Least 12000 in SL, but warrington had a good side in the 80's and was still a 'big town' getting very poor attendances. I recall games against Leigh, Saints, Wigan and Widnes packing the Railway end at Wilderspool. You are happy for this to cease ?

Rugby League is losing 'honesty' and is being raped and pilaged by TV. SL is on a big downward spiral at the moment. Lack of P&R is killing the sport, and 12 more months of Salford, London and the Crusaders getting pasted week in and week out will not help the sport one bit. SL should be 10 clubs, with the more 'honest' divisions below it !

Put Warrington in the French elite league I say. Lefty doesn't want the Derbys anymore against inferior sides from small Towns (especially the ones with better stadia !). I am sure that you can afford a fornightly trip on the odd plane to see your beloved side.

Living in Warrington and seeing your contribution to this thread so far, I am sure my neighbours (and true wolves fans) would shake their head at almost everything you have said.

Like it or lump it, RL is a Northern sport and unfortunately light years behind its National rival. With all these silly changes to rules, leagues etc etc, it will be for years to come !

Yeah, that's clearly the case.



Seriously, had you been drinking when you wrote that post? Thank God people like you have no influence in our game, and are ignored and laughed at by everyone.

Obviously what I said about Castleford and Wakefield was a little tongue in cheek. However I am deadly serious about away fans. Why in Rugby League we feel that some clubs owe us an away support is ludicrous.

Clubs have a responsibility to increase their crowds within the town they are situated, bemoaning teams awarded a franchise based on a crap away following is silly.

I am aware that the average attendance at Warrington should be much higher and a lot of work is being done to address that, currently we are seeing signs of that. Much of the increase can be accredited to the Challenge Cup victory however the work that goes on behind the scenes at Warrington is not to be underestimated.

I accept the argument that home clubs shouldn't rely on away fans for attendances to a degree, but your attitude to away fans is quite frankly ridiculous. there are few things better than being at a game where there is a decent away following to keep the atmosphere bubbling away. watching games against les catalans (whilst i accept their inclusion) is often very subdued as there is no-one for the fans to bounce off of. If we move to a league with 3 french clubs then more and more games will become devoid of any significant atmosphere imo and long term this needs consideration.
In your world lefty we might as well move to playing behind closed doors with it all on pay per view TV

than at larger all seated stadia quarter filled with a quiet home support and little away following

last time I looked away fans paid the same as hoem fans to get in. A customer is a customer!

Personally , I'd let them in cheaper , or at least contribute to their travel costs

The building of a good atmosphere at sporting events cannot be underestimated , especially in the long term benifits of building a good home support base

Rubbish. Do you think Manchester United are bothered about the 2 or 3 thousand city fans that attend or at any of their home matches for that fact. They could fill the ground with all home fans without much detriment to atmosphere. People live in a dream world. Get your own fans in first and worry about away fans later.

I'd happily go to watch Warrington infront of 13,024 home fans every week. We lose 10% of the tickets on away fans anyway.

I agree, a good atmosphere is likely to pull more supporters in. I have to pick and choose away games due to money, and I always choose the games with the best atmosphere.

I also agree with Lefty that it is up to the clubs to fill their own stadium. The only reason united have away fans is because the FA say you must give a certain number of tickets to away fans.

I am not saying it would be good with no away fans, but it would be great if we didn't need them.

Your letting your heights rule your head again.

Warrington need a bigger ground should the progression continue, but if you lose a couple, you will soon see a diference in attendance. Warrington are not a Leeds or Wigan (Yet)

Just look at Leeds. Like Wigan, they used to hold their attendances, but crowds of 12-13000 will result in Leeds not being the force they have been. Some attendances for some teams this year have been shocking.

As I said before, some current SL sides are going to struggle and are only in it for the Sky handout. 2-3000 crowds will effect the league dramatically in terms of teams really feeling the pinch.

The sides that will be effected in my opinion are Salford and Harlequins. If they don't start wining soon, things may get a little interesting.

What are you on about. I am talking about getting home fans in through the door. I have agreed with you about our crowd. The people behind the scenes at Warrington have to work really hard to get bums on seat as believe or not Warrington has a large population that travel and support local premiership football sides.

With the team not performing for so many years now the struggle has become increasingly more difficult. The key to our recent increase has been a new stadium which seems to be the answer if your not Leigh that is.

Back to the break down of fans though. Every club in this country would love all home fans in the ground as they make more money out of them.

So you use the one club potentially in the whole world that fills it's stadium for every match to make your point

Which RL club in the UK is currently anywhere near that situation ? , which RL club in the UK is making a profit ?

For RL to grow as a major sport it needs to increase all revenue streams , the major one is the TV revenue , TV companies prefer to see stadiums full when they are paying to show that sport , part of helping to build home support is having a good away following

when you do get to the stage where you are selling out every match to your home support then fine , the lack of away support is not very important

NO british RL club is anywhere near thet level at the moment

So it is you who is talking rubbish here , maybe Quins would be happier without any away fans , at least they would then be in the majority

Away fans are as relevant to the game as home fans, which is why I have said previously that away following should be reflected in the franchise scoring process. More away fans means more money into clubs to invest into the team, facilities, youth development whatever. If points are awarded for over 40% of capacity and over 10,000 average why not also for level of travelling support?

No club is at that level but that is what we should be aiming for. I am not saying that a club is anywhere near that level. What I AM saying is that ALL focus should be first and foremost aimed at getting locals in through the turnstiles. Any away fans that turn up are a bonus. They are a luxury not necessity. As for you Barnacle Bill well I despair.

Quins would be happier if they were getting 12000 home fans in every game so what is your point?

An increase in home fans = an incremental increase in away fans anyway, so the whole argument is invalid.

Not really but thanks for contributing.

What, so you're denying that a bigger fan base isn't naturally going to lead to more travelling support?

WHAT a LOAD of coddswallop.
How on earth do you expect to measure this? No, go on..humour me...
Lefty does have a point and I don't think he's necessarily disagreeing with you other guys.

It can do but not always. Therefore making your point invalid.

Anyway if that is a product of increasing home crowds then great it sort of goes to prove my point anyway. Get locals in first the rest will follow suit.

Of course it does. If X percentage of fans travel, and there are more fans, then there's obviously going to be more travelling fans. Even if not, there's going to be a bigger pool of potential travelling fans to draw from so this is obviously going to boost numbers. I was agreeing with you. It's a pathetic cop-out when people make a big issue of away support.

Yes agreed.

One point to be considered is the potential financial value of a second french team in television terms. As it stands, the Dragons have brought French TV to the table, but French TV are paying close to zilch for the rights. If having a second (or third) French team in SL means that the French broadcasters are willing to pay, then it may (I stress may) be worth bringing more French teams on board. In the NRL, the most valuable team for the competition are the NZ Warriors because Sky NZ pay for the NRL comp and wouldn't do if the Warriors weren't playing. The Dragons have made the comp more glamourous to Sky, but a second french team (with poss exception of Paris) would make little difference to Sky. In summary, Sky pay approx £1.2 million per club per season for Super League. Quite simply if a French broadcaster can be persuaded to spend £3 million for French rights for 2 French teams, then a second French team would be a good idea. If they'll put up £5million for 3 clubs, even better. But without that kind of cash, SL will have to stick with just one French side.
On a separate, but related question. Do the Quins add anything to the amount of money Sky are willing to spend?
The simple answer is... [uprobably[/u.
I say that because Sky Sports have (privately) always insisted that there is a London side in the competition. Sky aint a charity, so they must have done sufficient research to find out that they can sell more subscriptions to the south of England on the basis of a London club.
Personally, I'm an expansionista by inclination. I tire of supporters of traditional clubs with poor crowds and facilities who want to claim a place at the top table because of history rather than potential. (By the way, we rarely hear from Widnes/Cas/Wakey/Fev fans, that clubs such as Swinton or Oldham deserve a SL place despite their equally glorious history).
But expansionistas must be realistic. If the numbers don't add up, there should be no further expansion. TO and PSG would be fantastic additions, but as the old phrase goes, "Show us the money".