That is precisely my thought patterns. Using Portman Rd at Ipswich would be within perfect travelling distance of those within London. Norwich fans are very loyal in terms of football and if RL takes off, I can imagine it having a massive pull for those two. The commercial opportunity and potential supporter base is massive.

The idea of another London club taking the place of Quins is nowhere near possible. No alternative exists, the only other club in the capital above amateur level is Skolars and they have lost heavily to teams that have come through administration and liquidation in Championship 1. A new SL ready club would have to be set up, the few fans that Quins do have would be unlikely to follow it as their club would have been allowed to go to the wall rather than be given the help available from the backers of the new franchise, they would feel just as alienated as fans of any northern club would in the same situation. So this new club would have to find a larger following than Quins had to be able to survive but without the only people in the area that want to watch live RL. If a backer existed to set up said replacement franchise then surely they would find it a better prospect to take on an existing club with an existing (albeit small) fanbase, stadium, youth structure etc than to try to start a new one up in the hope that it would work where the predecessor had failed. If such a backer existed then they would already be looking at setting up a club and the RFL when approached would send them the way of the existing Quins club and tell them to plough their resources into that club (as they are currently trying to find a new majority shareholder).

If Quins were to fold tomorrow there would be no London club to replace them. As I suggested in my earlier post if Quins are expected to disappear some time soon then new clubs in towns just outside of London need to be set up now to cover for that eventuality.

If what I suggested were to happen with two clubs outside of London but still near enough to cover the same catchment area set up in Championship 1 with a view to natural progression and strengthening over time then in the future at least one of said clubs could be strong enough to replace Quins (if need be). As things stand scenario A would be a fruitless waste of time.

everyone is overlooking the most important thing.

which communities are crying out for a SL team.

the idea that plonking a team full of aussies in norwich/milton keynes/mars etc will automatically bring in the hoards is ludicrous.

have we learnt nothing from london?

never mind the huge number of people who live there or the poptential the fact is the vast majority of the country dont give a monkeys about rugby league and never will.

the only sensible route regarding expansion at the moment is cumbria, where people care about the game and grow up with it.

Plenty of people in London care about RL, but Harlequins Rugby League (they dropped 'Quins RL' but then disgracefully failed to replace it with anything approaching pithy) have failed to reach out to them.

It is a great tragedy for the game, given the opportunity presented by having a franchise in a stadium perfect for Super League 20 minutes from Waterloo.

Can other users please not that af has a weird obsession with our name, and to ignore his comments on everything to do with our club.

Who suggested a team of Aussies? I think you were the first.

Why does expansion mean a SL franchise to you? Do South Wales Scorpions, London Skolars, Nottingham Outlaws, Hemel Stags, Bristol Sonics, Blackwood Bulldogs and other amateur and semi pro clubs outside the north not exist? Those places aren't along the M62 are they?

In the south east there are a number of amateur and community clubs that are well established and there are teams competing in the RLC in the whole of the south of England. This is all part of a development process that leads to Quins (currently) at the top of the pyramid. These development clubs and competitions and youth rugby that are springing up are all vital to a large amount of funding our sport recieves from Sport England. To continue getting such funding we need to have this as part of nationwide inclusion. The existence of a club at semi professional and professional level in these areas helps to keep the players from these areas in the sport as they do not need to relocate a hundred miles north to keep playing and have a way to stay where they live and grew up without switching codes or giving up the game.

The reason I and others suggest clubs in the south east is because the thread is discussing alternatives to Quins and what should be done if they fold.

The sensible way to expand is to stop associating the word expansion with SL and to have the game develop at RLC level and below until a situation exists whereby one or two clubs can be established within each region at Championship 1 level and can then gather the core of their squad and support from the surrounding RLC and amatuer leagues in the way that the traditional clubs do. In the case of South Wales Scorpions we may just be seeing the first example of this system being used.

Ha, what's that name again? You don't seem to have found space in your post to include it.

Exactly how it should be done from here on out. Of course if a wealthy backer came in and wanted to do it satellite expansion style I wouldn't complain.

Just a bit on the issue of ownership. Lenegan is the majority shareholder (65%), David Hughes the only other unless there's been a very recent change. The ownership is nominal, I could afford to buy Lenegan out, he owns 65 shares at £1 each. I don't think he'd sell to me though, it needs someone who'll be willing to stump up the odd £1m per year.

Lenegan has stopped putting money in (not allowed as I understand it) so Hughes is standing all the financial losses. He's a wealthy man obviously but I don't know how deep his pockets are.

I've no idea, I have forgotten.

What was your idea, Harle13uins or something?

Nearly, Harleqxiiins. Rolls off the tongue. :p

So what happens if the football league do as they have mentioned in the press this week and stop dual sports on any football ground? Where would that put the clubs that share with footy?

Income £1.767m
Costs £3.586m
Net Loss £1.819m

Costs were over double their income.

Insolvent balance sheet = net liabilities approx £4.5m.

Go figure?

It is the Premier League not the football league that is proposing that. The issue would only impact on the soccer clubs (Wigan Athletic and Hull City) who would not be able to get back into the PL once relegated. The RL clubs cannot be evicted, if anything the football clubs would be forcibly demoted. There are threads on that subject on various boards including this one. Read those threads to find out why that is no worry for RL clubs.

absolutely agree that this should be the way for expansion. yes of course these clubs exist and are developing, however if one of them is jet propelled into superleague all that development goes out of the window, the playing and coaching staff are wholesale changed and replaced. just look at what has happened in wales.
how many london juniors break into SL (prior to this season), where will the players come from?
all i am saying is that development takes time and rushing things forward too soon can actually have a negative effect.

Who
Where
Who will pay
Who will watch

Its been tried and failed-forget it.

Interesting, thanks. Very hard to see where that money is being spent.

same questions can be applied to every expansion suggestion

This is all very well, but what has it got to do with Quins ? They're a club with 30 years of history, who have played in lower divisions and upper divisions, as semi-pros and pros. Anyone can, and plenty do, complain about Crusaders being fast-tracked in (although their predecessors also played in lower divisions), but Quins/London are just not in the same boat. No jet propulsion, or indeed even rowing up the wrong creek, involved.

IMO one of the reason's why Quins are failing is because no-one except the RFL seems to want them to work out! Every opputunity, loss, bad attendance is jumped on by the same old anti-expansionists.

If the whole of RL supported Quins (by that I don't mean switch allegiances), and supported the growth for the game in London, maybe, just maybe they'd fair slightly better.

so how would the support of lancastrians & yorkshire men living 300miles away help quins rl?.

Support doesn't just mean turning up every other week, but godknows we could do with a few.

So how exactly can the RL community help the Quins ? , and how does the opinion of a few thousand grumpy northerners contribute to Quins failure to draw crowds ?

Assume they must be close to the salary cap - if nothing else cos of London costs. Add on Employers' NIC (amount depends on what tax schemes they may be using for overseas players).

Costs of all the other club staff, including of course the coaching staff
Costs for use of the ground
Matchday costs (incl stewarding, security, entertainment...)
Office and admin costs
Marketing
Cost of goods sold
Travel and accommodation (no small cost when every away game is a long journey)
Audit, legal, professional fees
Transfer fees (if any)
Insurance
Other player-related costs (kit...laundry...meals...training...)

- just quick ones I can think of.

Its not the costs that are the problem - they don't seem out of line at all for a SL club, and are much less than those of various other clubs. Its the income - or lack of it. Apart from the Sky money and gate receipts, looks like they earned stuff all from corporate or sponsorship or merchandising, based on that figure.

Incidentally, those are the numbers for the 2008 season. We won't know the 2009 numbers until end August.

I dont think the RFL would kick out Harlequins purely because they are a London/southern franchise