It makes perfect sense to move defensive liability Lee Smith to full back.

As a point of order. Full backs generally make less tackles in a game than centres. If he can take the ball up well and beat the first man, then good on him. I don't get to watch SL. So you tell me if Smith can do that.

He does, and he did a fair job on Senior in the GF, but NZ have both the size and pace that is lacking in SL.

I honestly don't see NZ as THAT brilliant.
They have the structures that NRL coaching gives you but on a player to player comparison I don't think there's much in it and we have better depth.

How can you start off with that, then talk about changing pretty much the entire team apart from 4 players?!

Compare Benji Marshall to Danny McGuire

While I appreciate that Smith was poor, name one player who wouldn't be made to look like a liability against Inglis in that first half.

Paul Sykes

Lance Hohaha??
Thomas Leuleui??
Nathan Fien??
Eastwood??
Lima, Harrison and so on all very ordinary players and we have better in their positions. Thats without talking about their players who have about 5 rep caps between them.

A bit like the Saints v Bulls GF



At least Leeds can develop their own half backs unlike Saints who seem to rely on on other clubs doing the spade work - Widnes and Bradford if I am not mistaken

You aren't serious - let's compare a few players

Blair v Sinfield
Matai v Smith/Bridge/Eastmond
Marshall v Tomkins
Luke v Roby
Sau v Shenton
Eastwood v Westwood

Do you want to keep going

If the Kiwis come with any kind of power game as they did against the Aussies we could be feeling the pain!!

Im assuming you're a leeds fan, you'd happily trade Sinfield for Blair tomorrow? ... ... ... ... thought so.
Issac Luke won't start for NZ Leuleui does, if any Wigan fan wouldnt trade him for Roby I'd question what they've been putting in their cereal.

Marshall's playing 6, therefore he'd be up against McGuire, fair enough but no suprises there, Tomkins or Nathan Fien? Come on...
Sau's a strong bloke but Shenton will be better, Matai I'll give you and Eastwood will become a much better player than Westwood.

Lets compare a few more..
Burgess or Lima
Ellis or Harrison
Peacock or Pritchard
need we go on..

My point was there wasn't much in it and we have better depth, considering we have players like Senior, Pryce, Gleeson, Burrow, Brough that are better than their current rivals for the England Jersey I reckon that's true too. People are bigging NZ up to much better than they are when in reality they've caught Oz on a couple of off days and out enthused them

No point putting Smith at fb when in a couple of weeks time we'll never be able to select him again. I can only imagine he's a stop gap because our pool of available backs is so threadbare.

He shouldn't even be in the squad now he's pledged his allegiance to union. What next - Tony Smith trying to pass off a south sea islander as english?!

Smith is 23. Who's say he won't be back playing league by the time the world cup comes around?

If he is, he won't be anywhere near the level required for international rugby - see also Karl Pryce and Chev Walker.

Tomkins has played a handful of games in SL - Fien plays every week in the NRL and was a pivotal player in the last WC to say he is a worse player than Tomkins is simply laughable.

You underestimate players like Sam Perrett and Bronson Harrison - they may not have the quodos of their Aussie counterparts but these are serious players who would enhance any SL side

Time will tell - Pritchard or Peacock - no contest Peacock is a prop whose lack of mobility was cruelly exposed against the Aussies - Pritchard really showed up!!

The kiwis are a quality side with power and speed to spare - they gave the Aussies a serious game are were unlucky to draw - not sure the same could be said of last week's game at the DW

England are in for a whole lot of "Pain"

Eastmond starting on Saturday means that Saints have now developed as many international half backs as the famous Leeds production line has over the past thirty years.

Not sure that is quite right - but since SL Sinfield, Burrow and McGuire against Eastmond and Sculthorpe - although having said that did he not start at Warrington?

I wouldn't class Sinfield as a half back. I'm guessing that you may not remember Neil Holding as our other home grown half back of the past thirty years. Each British club has a poor track record at developing international half backs so to suggest that Leeds is somehow better than the others is ridiculous because neither McGuire nor Burrow are anything to get excited about.

In three years time Tomkins will be better than Fien could hope to be. Definition of average.
Perrett, Harrison, Lima et al...Definition of average, Perrett has no more ability than someone like Gareth Raynor but playing in a better comp (to be fair, the Kiwis have a few missing in the pack).
I was more comparing ability than necessarily L4L, peacock was picked in the second row so I compared him to a similar forward in the Kiwi team. Would Leeds swap Peacock for Pritchard? Again No.

Like I said originally the Kiwis are well coached, conditioned and they look like they're formed from a better comp but they certainly aren't a distance ahead like some would have you believe. If you took the best 30 players of Eng and the 30 best Kiwis, England would win hands down. Hell, Louis Anderson was in the original cut...

ive said similar on other threads.....the NZ team are not superhuman, they have Thomas Leuleuia playing for them. Would Leuleuia get in the Engalnd team? probably not IMO.

We need to get over this attitude that we have zero chance when playing NZ and AUs....its 17 men against 17 men and what they do over the course of 80 minutes. We are not that far behind, in everything except attitude IMO. Our team go onto the pitch thinking they are beaten most of the time.

In three years time and best 30 against best 30 - we are talking now and 17 against 17 - Perrett has significantly more ability than either Hall or Fox never mind Raynor, he is a better player than Morris too.

To hold down a place in a better comp by definition suggests some ability do you think the NRL would be selecting Raynor, Hall or Fox - no I didn't think so.

Distance ahead - time will tell the best thing that could happen to England is for the Kiwis to get a big lead and relax we might then make it respectable.

I actually think we have a really great chance but we have to get off to a good start and smash their forwards because playing on the front foot Eastwood and Tomkins will tear the Kiwi's apart

I mentioned 3 years time simply for Tomkins.
I said we had more depth, you disagreed with my initial point which is why I brought the 30 up.
As for the bit in bold; Ryan Tandy anyone?
They're well coached, a couple of world class players but ultimately not that much better than us, both of us are miles behind aus.
We'll see tomorrow anyway, if we get tatered, i'll be happy to concede

Soo Serge...
You were saying?