Perhaps, but in Leicester’s case one of their rewards was a further 10 games in the Champions League, which isn’t the case in RL.
I’d be happy with 4th. Anyone in the top 4 is 80 minutes away from the Grand Final.

Ellis was mostly ineffective going forward the last two years and was never ever anything like what he was in the NRL, also a liability injury wise.
I think psychologically players needed his leadership and that was the difference at times not his actual play, the coach really needs to ensure we have leaders on the field. Fonua was great going forward, shocking in defence, this was highlighted in his run out in the WC were time and again he was caught out.
I think getting Hadley back to compete for the 13 spot if not second row whilst being cover for Houghton plus Jordan Abdul to compete for the halves is great for us. Washbrook should be nowhere near the 17, disappointed that we yet again let go on loan an up and coming hooker and insist on flogging Danny Houghton week in week out.
Mickey Paea is a good bolster to our already strong pack and we should be better than last year IF the coach can get our defence sorted as time and again we shipped points far too easily and mentally we were weak far too often.

When Ellis missed the middle part of last year with injury Hull went W6 L6 and cost them the chance to have a home playoff. They've dropped a level when he's been missing or just subbed off, his absence will be big for them.

We missed a few important players during that period tbf, it can't all be attributed to Ellis, and a few of our best performances came without him. I think knockersbump has a point. Its his leadership that will be missed more than his rugby, but he will still take some replacing.

The team I named at the start of this thread probably wouldnt be my pick, rather the one I think Radford will go for. I would like to see Abdul start at loose, with Minichiello on the bench and Washbrook out of the 17, although I think you are very harsh on Washbrook there, he is a useful guy to have in the team.

Also Houghton's biggest strength is that he can play 80 every week and take that workload away from the big guys and save on the interchanges. Litten is highly thought of at the club and his time will come. He is still very young.

Cant disagree enough about being mentally weak. We had too many games where we just didnt turn up with the right attitude, but that's not the same thing. We showed great mental toughness at times. The games against Cas and Wigan with 12 men were hugely courageous performances. The slog that was Wakefield away and the Cas cup game in possibly the hottest weather I have ever watched rugby in. They are not the performances of a mentally weak team.

I said far too often we were mentally weak and if you look at how we folded at times, panicked ridiculously, it was the complete reverse to those performances you mentioned, consistently inconsistent. At times we just fell to bits, had no gumption, no idea, the Saints tragic w/e game, Salford at home, Leigh and a few others (Hudds in the play-offs) are examples of mental weakness. Even that Wigan home game we blew it at the start of the second half, why Radford didn't instil in the players coming out after half time not to chuck it about like headless chickens is anyone's guess but that is exactly what they did, Wigan scored within a minute or two and even then we had chances but kept being our own worst enemy. That is yet another reflection of a team that isn't well drilled/mentally strong.

Our best and worst performances were the widest apart of any team in SL IMHO, that was something Radford said he was going to address two or more seasons back, last season was the worst in that sense, why are we so far apart when our injuries were not the biggest part of the results.

That seems to make sense (although I guess Grix would still be 1st choice FB). I prefer Arundel as he's the type of centre you need if you've got pace outside (England take note). Arona also seems to be making the LF position his own. Also, it is the norm to spell hookers (and life's easier if you agree with Vastman

)

However, going on the squad numbers (which means nothing really), it would be interesting to see that 1-17 take the field.

1. Grix
2. Johnstone
3. Tupou
4. Lyne
5. Jones-Bishop
6. Miller
7. Finn
8. Fifita
9. Wood
10. England
11. Ashurst
12. Kirmond
13. Randell

14. Horo
15. Pauli
16. Arona
17. Huby

Keeping both 'hookers' on the field for 80 minutes and sharing acting half-back duties and just rotating the forwards off the bench. Having all the playmakers on the field all the time with a big pack and speed outside could be the way to go?

1st team quality backup outside that is pretty good too: Arundel, Batchelor, Hirst, Jowitt, Caton-Brown and possibly Annakin/Baldwinson.
Injury crisis permitting, that's a side that can challenge for top 4 again.

Could this be the first time that 2 teams go up from the middle 8's should the format not be changed ?

Salford and Widnes need to recruit quick, or they are certs in my opinion

Super League is likely to be 14 teams in 2018 IMO so Salford, Hull Kr and Widnes should be ok. This should be decided before the start of the season, so clubs know the likelihood of promotion and relegation, very poor if this is decided mid season.

Think your wrong there. Plenty in reserve in the forwards. When Hirst, Kirmond, Anakin and Baldwinson are your Back ups things are not to bad and I'm sure I missed one.

Halfbacks are thin on the ground but that's endemic in SL at present. Can Cas replace Gale long term? Same for most clubs.

Nope we are strong up until 25 - then its youngsters, just like most teams. Truth is a severe injury crisis would destroy every team in SL.

Bookmarked this page.

Ha ha...me too.

Wouldn’t be surprised if Warrington’s new coach doesn’t see the season out.

Looking at most of the squads there are far too many overseas players in there, it needs to get down to three or four at most if we are to develop our young players.
Also a lot of those overseas players are in pivotal positions.

Ellis ineffective? unbelievable statement.

The problem is the pool of players is so small SL has to rely on overseas players to boost the standard.

On what basis? He's making all the right noises since his arrival and definitely has a point to prove

Why do you bother? You know he is only trying to wind you up.

Correct, typical WUM.

I don't generally i just thought that one was funny. Is that ok with you?

Batchelor . You could even name Crowther he must be getting close this year, the club has invested some real time and money into the lad, unlike others they've let go after the step up.

I might not be a Hull supporter but saw plenty of him & completely agree. Obviously, he wasn't in his absolute prime but even slightly less than that he was still an awesome player and as an opposition, you were happy to see his name, not on the team sheet. The blokes work ethic, tackling and strong runs were all still there until the end. The only thing you can say is his injuries caught up with him, just like any great player.

I must admit I’d forgotten about Paea signing and that forward pack should be very good again. I’m not criticising the Hull line up, I think it’s very strong but it’s probably not quite as strong as last year imo. It will still be good enough to challenge for the lot but with a leader like Ellis in and a player in Fonua who caused all sorts of problems, I think I’d have had you as favourites for everything.

As it stands I can’t sit here and say one is a favourite out of Hull, Cas, Leeds, Saints, Wigan or Warrington. I wouldn’t rule out Wakey or even Huddersfield from making a decent run of things.

Imagine how ineffective he could have been without lifting them back to back Challenge Cups at Wembley for the first time(s) in our 152 year history.

Widnes and Salford look the weakest by some margin to me, then KR, Catalan and Wakey.

I also think Cas might struggle to stay near the top - when you look at individual players, their 17 really isn't that good, but in Powell they have a coach who absolutely gets more than the sum of its parts. The loss of Hardaker, any injury or loss of form from Gale, plus teams having a full off season to work out how to combat the free flowing, spread it wide attack of Cas will see them find 2018 much harder I think. Could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time), but I don't see Cas making the 4.

IMO It'll be Leeds, Wigan, Wire and then Saints or Hull for the top 4, probably Saints.

NO i didnt forget him he's already on the bench. I fully expect him blow SL away this season injuries permitting - young player of the year hopefully

Wakefield don't give five year deals to 19 year olds very often if ever which says it all to me.