Union is on the nose in Oz, we just need the stench to drift over to the shaky isles, and for the arlc to support the nzrl better. The winds of change are blowing strong in the NRL and it is onLy a matter of time before they reach NZ. www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/walla ... 6745421794 Can you give me a link that shows netballs higher viewing figures on sky than NRL?

Union is on the nose in Oz, we just need the stench to drift over to the shaky isles, and for the arlc to support the nzrl better. The winds of change are blowing strong in the NRL and it is onLy a matter of time before they reach NZ. www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/walla ... 6745421794 Can you give me a link that shows netballs higher viewing figures on sky than NRL?

Quote ="JB Down Under"Union is on the nose in Oz, we just need the stench to drift over to the shaky isles, and for the arlc to support the nzrl better. The winds of change are blowing strong in the NRL and it is onLy a matter of time before they reach NZ. www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/walla ... 6745421794 Can you give me a link that shows netballs higher viewing figures on sky than NRL?'" throng.co.nz knock yourself out......you really have no idea as to how small league is in NZ outside of south Auckland

Quote ="JB Down Under"Union is on the nose in Oz, we just need the stench to drift over to the shaky isles, and for the arlc to support the nzrl better. The winds of change are blowing strong in the NRL and it is onLy a matter of time before they reach NZ. www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/walla ... 6745421794 Can you give me a link that shows netballs higher viewing figures on sky than NRL?'" throng.co.nz knock yourself out......you really have no idea as to how small league is in NZ outside of south Auckland

You of all people can tell us what the last few crowds for warriors outside of Auckland have been. How many NRL players have come from clubs outside of Auckland? Looks like a fair bit of interest to me.

It's nothing like oz kick. Ozkick is a kids short term programme to introduce children to afl skills. Touch footy is a competitive variant of RL played in structured leagues by registered players. FACT is touch footy is a variant of RL just like 7,s in union or 20/20 in cricket. The point RL has been stupid in allowing one of its creations and forms of the game to become brand disassociated from the code does not change the fact it is a form of RL and these players are registered RL (touch) players.

I disagree.

The RLWC is the biggest tournament in the game. You don't just give it to countries that flash their wallet. It's got to be more than that. If it fails, it damages the tournament.

It's the same reason why the NRL don't just give franchises to the place that flashes the most cash as soon as they make an interest known. And the same reason why SL have been stupid to do so (failed expansion clubs damage the game).

There needs to be some idea of what they're offering to the game. The RLWC is too important.

In what way? In the way of Fifa taking a far bigger world cup to the USA, South Africa or Qatar? Of the IRB taking theirs to Japan? Like the European Golf tour taking competitions the heartlands of European golf in in the Middle East India, China and Africa?

We cant on one hand argue the international game needs money and expansion, then when a new country comes in and offers loads of money to host a tournament expect them to jump through hoops. It isn’t about asking what South Africa as a nation is going to do for the game but what the game can do for South Africa. It is up to the game to sell itself to South Africans, its for the game to get South Africans interested, get them playing and supporting the game. Its not for South Africa dance to our tune just in the hope we will throw them some scraps. The RLWC is the best option for selling the game to anybody. The interest generated is far and above anything else. If someone else wants to pay for the best sales pitch, the best advertising and marketing, the best opportunity for this game in SA we would be idiots to turn them down.

Look at the interest generated here for the WC. It massively outstrips everything else we have done. The biggest boost possible to the game in SA would be the WC. Not only in terms of seeing it there but the investment that would go on in the build up and the legacy it would leave. And it would all be on someone else’s dime.

Nobody is saying just give them it. But if there is a properly financed and costed bid, ready to go. These opportunities don’t come around every day.

If part of the deal is to spend enough money on the South African Rhinos to get them up to a competitive standard within four years, that might be enough gain for the International game.
I think it could be done, but they would need to hire a top flight coach and get some games every year for their side.
South Africa were knocked out of this cup by USA, and not the beefed up USA of the finals - domestic strength USA.

Do we never learn? You can't beef up the Rhinos in four years! It will take schools programmes, jnr development more than the current few amateur clubs, significant investment and quite a long period of time before the Rhinos are even going to compete in tier three of int RL.

I don't think people on here understand the awareness issue of league in SA - I'd be willing to bet it's less than 1% of the population (just some ex-pats from the north). There is NO league shown on TV, reported on in the media.

Now couple this with the strength and media dominance of RU (they even broadcast the university matches in SA), I think the result of a WC in SA would be to raise the awareness to around 1%, with perhaps a couple more percent claiming to be 'confused' that they're not rucking and mauling.

Yes, the RLWC13 has done well in raising the profile across the nation, but at least they come from a start where RL in the UK is just about regarded as a major sport.

With the FIFA WC in USA at least there was a league structure and awareness of the sport, and 'soccer' is the most attended sport in South Africa so not sure what Smokey's point is there.

I could see a proposal where rich SA businessmen set up a national league with a major sponsor and TV deal, runs for 8 years, then the country is ready to host a WC. But you don't just drop a WC on a country where no one is watching/playing the sport.

In the US there wasnt a league structure for football, it was put in place as a condition of getting the world cup. The catalyst for everything which has happened over the passed twenty years in the US is the world cup.

The MLS didnt start play until 1996.

Did the RFL hear I might be going there to work next year?

I've set up a club before, but think this could be beyond me.

In a way that, if it flops, would devalue the biggest tournament we have by showcasing our best players in front of tiny crowds in large stadia and a poor image of the game to a country with little awareness. It's too short term thinking and oils damage future interest in the tournament. Look at the damage a poor 2000 WC did.


The awareness of soccer is so much bigger compared to any other sport anywhere. On top of that, if one person from the US didn't turn up, the WC would still have gotten huge crowds from people travelling (such is the size of the tournament and the sport). You can't say that about RL. A few people from Aus, NZ and England won't fill stadia.


Yes we can. There is nothing wrong with having standards and expectations.


No, it's both.
Expansion is more than just ploughing an area with whatever the money man can afford to bring in. There needs to be a strategy. If a SA fails because it is rushed, the damage caused would set back expansion for years in that country. It would waste an opportunity to gain resources from other areas had there been a successful WC elsewhere. It has to be two ways to be successful, not one way.

The WC would very likely fail if it's in SA in four years. It's just too soon and the expectations and importance if the competition are too high. It's a huge risk we don't need to take. A 4N is a smaller risk.


It's very similar to the expansion argument in SL where a rich businessman wants a SL franchise and the rest doesn't matter. It doesn't work like that. There needs to be a much better more thought out strategy.


How much more interest has been generated by the RLWC here? Twice the normal interest maybe?
If you multiplied the interest in RL in SA by 100, it still wouldn't be worth it. To get the most out of the WC, there needs to be some kind of starting point.


We should work with the people interested and let them know what we would expect. You wouldn't just give it to them because they have money. Fit and proper persons, etc.

More info on the South African bid here: www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... 2w2lo.html Where is the money coming from?? "Is it any wonder the SARL have support from the other countries? They want to give everyone $200,000 each over the next four years to get up to speed and are throwing up $1 million in prizemoney for 2017." Not to worry though, Nigel Wood is leading the decision making process, with assistance from an "auditing company" that will run financial feasibility tests (KPMG, one presumes).

More info on the South African bid here: www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... 2w2lo.html Where is the money coming from?? "Is it any wonder the SARL have support from the other countries? They want to give everyone $200,000 each over the next four years to get up to speed and are throwing up $1 million in prizemoney for 2017." Not to worry though, Nigel Wood is leading the decision making process, with assistance from an "auditing company" that will run financial feasibility tests (KPMG, one presumes).

If they can leverage that sort of money why is RL in SA so weak and the Rhinos a 5th tier international side. A better and more realistic option would be a firm strategy from the sarl, with support from the NRL, to develop the game in SA and the quality of the national squad ready for a serious bid in 2021

The international game in RL was a joke prior to 2000 and after 2000. 2000 itself wasnt what did the damage, it was the decisions taken after that damaged the game in this country.

The US world cup was and still is the highest attended WC in history. Better than France, better than Germany, better than Italy, Japan/Korea and better than Mexico. The US wasn’t the best attended WC in history because of travelling fans. But because it was a good tournament, well marketed and well organised.

I notice you failed to address the other examples.


You’re right we can indulge in self-defeating hypocrisy. Im not sure what purpose it would serve but we can do it.

And if that money doesn’t come in because governments and business don’t want to doff their cap the RLIF and jump through their hoops we could set back expansion for years aswell.


Really? Most people expect this world cup, in RL’s heartland and birthplace to be a complete flop. I can’t imagine the expectations in SA would be all that high.

As for the importance of the ‘competition’ even if nobody watches, that will be fine.

Leighton Samuel and the two goons in Wrexham wasted a hell of a lot of their money. The legacy of their waste and failure is a game in Wales that has never been stronger.

So you are saying that if 1000 people in SA play RL and a WC there increased it to 100’000 that would be a waste of time? Christ on a bike if we went from 100 people playing RL to 10’000 because of the WC it would time bloody well spent.

I’ve no problem with making sure the people who would organise it are who they say they are and will do what they will say they will do. What I really wouldn’t do is force them to put on a competition they aren’t interested in putting on so that they can put on a competition they do want to.

South Africa doesn't start from a zero base.
They start from having a culture where it is compulsory to play Rugby in many of their schools and the basic skills of Rugby are as common there as any place on earth.
Picking up a lot of talented Rugby Union juniors at 18 or 19 and sending them off to learn to play League in Australia or England would not be that expensive, and if you did that right now, you could get together a decent side in 4 years - not good enough to win a world cup - but probably quarter finalists.
It isn't like South Africa is a country where Rugby skills are unknown and we are going to try to start from scratch.

have you guys never been on a football or Rugby Union forum to see what they say about League?
It's like we don't exist at best and is hated at worst, they say league is a dumb down version of rugby watched and played by the dingleberries of society were they all predict our game is going to die a slow death
Rugby League does not exist in the national consciousnesses of main stream media.
You are much more likely to see the One Show do a feature on a worm charming village festival than mention the RLWC in this next month!
Some of you people still think all you have to do is sticking a pin in a map to have a successful world cup and massive crowds , wtf are you guys smoking.

The decisions made after the WC were very much to do with the failure and near bankruptcy of the RFL. They played it safe. The WC was poorly attended and knocked back interest in the international game immensely.


I never said it was because of travelling fans. I said there was less risk. And that's true.
If locals failed to turn up in USA, there'd still be tens if thousands of travelling fans to pack stadia and create a good image. The same cannot be said of SA and RL. It is a huge risk with no prior event taking place to gauge interest.


Because your first one was poor enough.


Why is it hypocritical?


But there is less risk. That's the main thing.


RLFans.com does not represent most people. Just remember that.


Err... No it wouldn't be! If no one watches it, it would be a complete disaster!


Short term boom and bust. We have no idea of its long term problems yet. Is the game in South Wales better for it? Are they any closer to a full time SL side it further away?


Maybe a "slight" exaggeration on my point, I'll admit there. But it would never grow that much on the back of one WC and we both know that. How long would it last for before it declined again? Would it be sustainable? I very much doubt it.
More could be achieved in other areas than there could be here. And I'm very sceptical about the figures being thrown around anyway. What would be in it for them? I very much doubt they'd make anywhere near a return on that amount if money.


You've got to have some reference point IMO before you risk your biggest comp. it's the same reason why I think the top-down method for SL would never work.

I can see we both differ on that view so we might as well just agree to disagree.

Citing football in the US and the 1994 World Cup is a terrible comparison. Despite no professional league at the time, football still had followers in the US. "Soccer" has always been played in schools and on parks across the US, and more importantly, colleges - there was a base to build from and certainly plenty of interest. The NASL had a massive profile and ran from 1968 to 1984 with big crowds and international stars of the game, and women's soccer has always been big, not to mention the huge South American immigrant population who are crazy for football. And MLS didn't come about as a result of a surge of interest in 1994 - MLS was actually founded in 1993 as part of the bid for the World Cup in the first place.

As for the huge crowds in 1994 - that's thanks to the availability of dozens of huge pro and college stadiums and hundreds of thousands of fans travelling there for the competition. The smallest stadium held 53,000. If France had had so many huge stadiums in 1998 attendances would have been much higher.

RL in SA is, for any practical purpose, non-existent. The SA public don't know or care about it. RU is probably more powerful there than football is in the UK. We may as well stage it in Mexico or Iceland.

Amazed this thread has run to 6 pages. The very suggestion of a RL World Cup in SA is bad joke.

The reason why we don't go on those forums is very simple.

We have a modicum of intelligence and the capacity to think.

On Mo & Ron Ball's game sites an amoeba has a PhD compared to the vast majority of single syllable antagonists who post.

As for Union all you can hear is Baa Baa Baa for they are sheep who being told something is good believe it without question because they do not have the capability to question.

Forgive my lack of historical knowledge but whatever happened to RL in South Africa. I seem to remember them having a solid spine of players with the odd superstar. Next thing they were struggling with the also/never rans.

Just a thought - it strikes me that the Aus/NZ bid could be widened to include USA playing it's group games in Hawaii. It isn't that far away.

I'm guessing having a RU influenced Govt stop recognising it as a sport didn't help! www.theroar.com.au/2013/06/07/vi ... by-league/

I'm guessing having a RU influenced Govt stop recognising it as a sport didn't help! www.theroar.com.au/2013/06/07/vi ... by-league/

Aus,NZ and PNG would be the max spread I would go to.

Kiwis, Fiji, Tonga & Samoa based in NZ (5 Cities - Auckland (Tonga), Wellington (Kiwis), Christchurch (Samoa), Dunedin (Fiji), Hamilton one game)
PNg based in PNg (Port Moresby 2 games)
everyone else based in Oz (11 venues with some nations being based in a city and playing 2 games at that venue - SFS, ANZ, Parramatta, Wollongong (Scotland), Darwin (PnG game) , Newcastle (Scotland), Melbourne (Ireland & Italy), Perth (England), Gold Coast (Wales), NQ (France), Suncorp)

at a push I would consider including a Fiji game in Fiji given how much potential for growth there is in the game there with a bit of a push.

South Africa is dreaming, though it might be a leverage they need to get RL recognised as a sport by their Govt!

Quote ="JB Down Under"I'm guessing having a RU influenced Govt stop recognising it as a sport didn't help! www.theroar.com.au/2013/06/07/vi ... by-league/'" I believe SARL has now been recognized by the government on the back of this bid.

Quote ="JB Down Under"I'm guessing having a RU influenced Govt stop recognising it as a sport didn't help! www.theroar.com.au/2013/06/07/vi ... by-league/'" I believe SARL has now been recognized by the government on the back of this bid.