For me sam tomkins has to play 7 now, I do not understand why the form half back in the comp didnt go, paul deacon!

1. Widdop
2. Goudling
3. Shenton
4. J.Tomkins
5. Atkins
6. Brown
7. S.Tomkins
8. Graham
9. Roby
10. Morley
11. Ellis
12. Burgess
13. O'Loughlin

14. Westwood
15. Robinson
16. Fielden
17. Crabtree

1. S.Tomkins
2. Briscoe
3. Atkins
4. Shenton
5. Hall

6. O'Loughlin
7. Brown

8. Morley (C)
9. Roby
10. Graham
11. Westwood
12. Ellis
13. Burgess

14. J Tomkins
15. Crabtree
16. Fielden
17. Lunt

18. Cudjoe (Utility Back)
19. Robinson (Utility Half)
20. Harrison (Utility Forward)
21. Widdop (Backup Fullback/Standoff)
22. Goulding (Backup Threequarter)
23. Griffin (Backup Prop)
24. Clubb (What?) (Backup Centre/Second Row)

Probably the worst we have looked in the halves and in the front row for a while. Our backs are far superior to our old crop, probably miles behind whatever 2nd string lot from Aus/NZ still. Back Row for me is our sole strong point, hence trying to squeeze another in with O'Loughlin (as we won't have a kicking game out of any team we put out) at stand off for me. Grind out the games and pray that Stomkins grants us a few breaks.

Interesting how every Wigan poster as got all 5 of their players in the 17.

I think it should have been Tomkins/Deacon in the halves.

I also think that Lynch/Scruton should be in there instead of Crabtree.

Here's a nice stat about Tony Clubb for you (And Yes i did steal it off twitter)

Centre Tony Clubb this year missed 92 tackles,more than anyone.Senior,Gleeson and Yeaman combined missed 90.

Now that is Scary..........

Interesting how McBanana has left the form English centre out of the squad in favour of someone who hasn't stood out in a poor London team.

Widdop kicks goals im fairy sure

1. Widdop
2. Briscoe
3. Atkins
4. Shenton
5. Hall
6. Brown
7. S.Tomkins

8. Morley
9. Robinson
10. Graham
11. Westwood
12. Ellis
13. Burgess

14. Harrison
15. Crabtree
16. Griffin
17. Roby

Cudjoe
Lunt
J Tomkins
O'Loughlin
Goulding
Fielden
Clubb

6 players from the giants team, bet no one expected that .... well done giants shows how far we have come




out of the 6..

griffin - our best prop this season

robinson - had his best season for us, playing out of his skin, great tackler and commitment 2nd to none.

cudjoe - dont think he will get a game but will provide some speed in the backs if he plays

brown - gets slated by wigan fans etc but hes not the same player, very classy now

crabtree - mid season i wouldnt of picked him for england but improved back end of season and playoffs,
played himself back into contention and prob deserves another chance after having a great series last time.

lunt - not the best of seasons, been playing out of position in 2nd row though, (brough and robinson keeping him out) if he plays hooker will do a good job, speed and fitness levels excellant.

We won't make the final.

1. Widdop (although ive never seen him play... but think tompkins needs to be in the halves)
2. Cudjoe
3. Atkins
4. Shenton
5. Hall
6. Brown
7. S.Tomkins

8. Morley
9. Robinson
10. Graham
11. Westwood
12. Ellis
13. Burgess

14. O'loughlin
15. Fielden
16. Griffin
17. Roby

Briscoe
Lunt
J Tomkins
Harrison
Goulding
Crabtree
Clubb

I think Lynch/Carvell/Scruton/Coley/Bailey should have been in over Griffin.

Widdop
Briscoe
Shenton
Atkins
Hall
Brown
Tomkins
Graham
Robinson
Morley
Ellis
Burgess
O'Loughlin

Roby
Fielden
Westwood/J Tomkins
Harrison/Crabtree

We're crying out for a 7 with a quality kicking game. Paul Deacon hasn't retired from international has he?

Clubb is physically able to handle the Kiwi's and Aussies....however as pointed out already, he missed too many tackles and against top opposition we'll be hammered down his channel.

Would love to see England do well, just can't see it myself...if you even compare the speed of the SL Grand Final to the NRL Final its scary...the NRL final felt like watching it in fast forward compared to ours....if we can live with the speed the Aussies will play the game we may just stand some possible hope...but can't see past Australia to win it imo.

Lets hope McNamara's point of them going out and enjoying themselves is true...maybe results will take care of themselves if that happens.

I have 1 worry about Goulding getting a start and I thought about it at the time. That attempted tackle on Meli in the grand final! Hall and Briscoe wouldnt have missed that.

Some awful selections for me. McNamara is obviously going to go with Sam T in the HB's looking at the distinct lack of quality and depth. But from that squad i'd go with .....

1.Widdop
2. Briscoe
3. Shenton
4. Atkins
5. Hall
6. Brown
7. S.Tomkins
8. Graham
9. Robinson
10. Morley
11. Ellis
12. J.Tomkins
13. O'Loughlin

Bench ( As much impact as possible )

Roby
Fielden
Crabtree
Burgess

Lunt - Not defensively sound enough just look at the Saints GF qualifier.
Cudjoe - Elusive, fast but from what i've seen defensively not ready to face the Aussies.
Clubb - Really poor defensively and cant believe he's been selected tbh.
Harrison/Westwood - Both really unfortunate to miss out especially Westwood but i think the other SR's other a little more going forward as this seasons stats show.
Goulding - Unlucky to miss out to Briscoe as i think both could possible struggle defensively just through athleticism and sheer size.
Griffin - Had a good year but not as good as the other props and Crabtree others much more impact and played really well in the last internationals.

If as i expect Sam Tomkins plays at Scrum half McNamara has made an awful decision. Sam is by far england most potent attacking threat and should be given as much of a free role as possible with as little organizational duties as possible.

Rubbish. I have seen Hall and Briscoe miss tackles like that, all wingers do from time to time, and Hall in particular has been fairly poor this season. Overall Gouldings defence has been fantastic this season and he saved 2 tries in the Grand Final with great tackles. Also one of his real strengths is dealing with kicks and I would back him against anyone under the high ball, I dont think I have seen him drop one all year. He has been very good this season and has been one of our best players in the play offs, hence Roberts and Phelps not getting in the team.

Not for me, I think Goulding isn't up to internationals yet and Hall, Briscoe and Cudjoe are all better candidates for wing spots than him imo. Either more physically up to it, or more likely to pull off a special play. He has been excellent at SL level this year, finishing well and strong in defence, but not international yet.

Fielden is a strong grafter, can do masses of minutes and has really cut down on his stupid errors now. However his selection shows to me that the idea England has the best pack is a total myth if he is what it comes to internationally after one injury. Graham and Morley are all we have in the front row now, until the younger guys mature a bit (Watts, Harrison, Mossop etc)

O'Loughlin and the Tomkins brothers are no brainers to be frank.

One thing about that squad is the aussies will know very little about some of the players hopefully we can take them by surprise.

I am sure mcbanana has done it though to bankrupt the Giants into having to pay international size salaries to half of our team.

Clubb is utterly pants.

its an absolute nonsense of a squad, only upside I can see is that it may force the RFL to take that plunge and get Wayne Bennett in.

It doesnt seem to have any flexibility it is very one dimensional. There doesnt seem to a decent field kicker never mind a goal kicker in that squad, no real organiser and we are screwed when we inevitably lose the three/four players through injury that all sides do during a series. Who is going to lead that team around the field?

What does Andy Lynch need to do to get a cap? He is a step above Griffin and Fielden over the course of the year. Why take Clubb and not a player like Lee Smith who can cover us at FB, Centre and Wing?

Australia's squad:

Darren Lockyer (C), Sam Thaiday (Brisbane Broncos); Tom Learoyd-Lahrs, David Shillington (Canberra Raiders); Paul Gallen (Cronulla Sharks); Greg Bird (Gold Coast Titans); Anthony Watmough (Manly Sea Eagles); Cooper Cronk, Billy Slater, Cameron Smith (Melbourne Storm); Kurt Gidley (Newcastle Knights); Matthew Scott, Willie Tonga (Nth Qld Cowboys); Jarryd Hayne (Parramatta Eels); Petero Civoniceva, Luke Lewis (Penrith Panthers); Darius Boyd, Brett Morris, Dean Young (St George Illawarra Dragons); Todd Carney, Nate Myles (Sydney Roosters); Brent Tate (New Zealand Warriors); Robbie Farah, Chris Lawrence (Wests Tigers).

They could lend us a few backs out of that.

Why not? It's also true that Huddersfield under performed this season, and their performances have showed that. Wigan have enough players in the squad. Also, Brown is regarded as an excellent five-eighth and had a damn fine game against France, Robinson's had a good play-off series and Lunt has been consistantly good, and is a quality player. They all deserve there chance as much as Tompkins, Goulding and all the Others.

Lee Smith is out. He's due to have an ankle opp. Lynch isn't in probably because he couldn't be d again.

no real experience in the half backs seems to be the major problem to me. Puts a lot of pressure on someone either with little international experience, or on Roby to step up and take control around the ruck - which isnt really his game. Having said that, Tomkins did ok last year in the 4N - so maybe he can take it up another level.

plenty of youth in there - which should be a good thing, youthful exuberance and no fear against playing the Aussies hopefully.

The lack of a goal kicker is a major problem. You cant rely on Westwood, who wont be on the field for the full 80mins.

As a 40 year old who has been watching rugby league since the early 80's that is the worst Australian squad I have seen (and whatever the result of the 4 Nations, it will remain so)

There are some very good players in there and some real average players too... in the past, the Australian squad was brimming with talent