I'm surprised that you didn't count the empty seats and do the maths

Will the club wembey seats be counted if they shown up or not?

The Wembley "Ring of Indifference" wasn't the main problem today. It was the huge swathes of empty seats elsewhere that were the problem. Many of those must have been counted too!

78,000+ in attendance? Yeah, right

Spot on. The world has changed.

William has liked to compare 1985 to this year, so here it is:

1984/85 Premiership Trophy Final - 15,518
84/85 Lancashire Cup Final - 26,074
84/85 Yorkshire Cup Final - 25,237
84/85 John Player Trophy Final - 25,326
84/85 Challenge Cup Final - 97,801

Total - 189,956

2013 World Club Challenge - 20,400
2013 Magic Weekend - 30,793 & 31,249
2013 Challenge Cup Final - 78,137
2013 Grand Final - ? but assume its roughly similar to last season, say 70,000

Total - 230,579

So an extra 40,000 people attending big RFL club events this year than in 1984/85.

The average attendance for Division 1 in 1984/85 was 4,751 compared to even Williams calculation of the current 2013 average of 8,500.
The club with the highest average attendance in 1984/85 was Wigan with 10,784, compared to Leeds currently with 15,165.
The club with the lowest average attendance in 1984/85 was Workington with 907, compared to London currently with 2,213.

[uTranslation[/u:
1984/85 season = 191,956/5 games = 38,391 average
2013 season = 230,579/10 games = 23,058 average
% decrease = -39.94%

Let's make it simple
1984/85 - three major finals attendances (99,801,15,518, 25,326) total 140,645 average 46,881

2013 - three major events WCC, CC & GF (20,400, 78,137, 70,000) total 168,537 average 56,179

Increase in average for 2013 19.8%!!

Those pre SL days were so great, you can make the stats say anything if you are as selective as you. The 99,801 will have also been a made up number - I see you omitted to discuss the general attendances, does that not suit your argument? Maybe it was just RL was in a decline in the 1980's is that it?

That's very poor William, it really is. You'd find a lot more sympathy to your core argument if you didn't do this sort of silliness.
I, and I'm sure many people, agree with you on several areas, especially the Internationals, but its when you try this stuff that you lose support. Your attendances thread is a great example.

The Rugby league world is so upset about Wigan winning their 19th Challenge Cup that they have resorted to doing stats like our very own Phil Clarke.

So you weren't comparing total attendances at 10 fixtures in 2013 with total attendances at 5 fixtures in 1985?

Still ignoring the league attendances I see - why is that I wonder?

Oh dear.

Did you know that Wigan's home attendances are currently 7.85% down on last season?

but roughly 30% up on where they were in 1984/85?

Did you know Wigan's home attendances are currently up 46% on the 1984/85 season? Don't forget this is the same magical season you referenced that attracted 99,801 to the challenge cup final.

See, anybody can make up dodgy stats!

No I was comparing the 5 major club events that existed in 1985 to the 4 major club events that exist in 2013. Plus I was comparing the average attendance of the top division in 1985 to the average attendance of the top division in 2013.

If you'd rather we could strip out the events that didnt/don't exist in either time period. Which would give us:

1984/85
Premiership Final - 15,518
Challenge Cup Final - 99,801

Total - 115,319

2013
Grand Final - let's even say a dip from last year, say 65,000
Challenge Cup Final - 78,137

Total - 143,137

That's nearly 30,000 extra people watching the major events.
Isn't a dip of 20k in Challenge Cup Final crowds worth it in return for 50k extra at the Playoff final?
Even though, as pointed out earlier in the thread, the 78k is above average for a Wembley Cup Final.

Did you know that this morning we had won the Challenge Cup 18 times .... we have now won it 19 times .... that's an increase of just over 5% !

Did you also know me and mates (that's 100% of us in my house at the moment ... all of us 2000% over the drink drive limit) find your negativity very boring ?

Ah but the last time you won it was an increase of nearly 6%, proof that Wigan are in decline!

A fair point ...... Wane out !

A busy nights trolling.....

Who's to blame though?

[uChallenge Cup Total Attendances from Round 4 onwards[/u
=#FF00002013: Total = 192,472 from 31 games = Avg: 6,209
2012: Total = 211,113 from 31 games = Avg: 6,810
2011: Total = 230,447 from 31 games = Avg: 7,434
2010: Total = 227,550 from 31 games = Avg: 7,340
2009: Total = 225,962 from 31 games = Avg: 7,289

CC attendances are down by 8.83% on last year, down by 16.48% on 2011 figures, down by 15.42% on 2010 figures and down by 14.82% on 2009 figures.

It's a dying competition.

I'd be happy if they scrapped it but theres too much history.

Huddersfield, probably.

Going over some of the forums, there are a lot of so-called 'fans' this sport could do without. The number of miserable, glass half empty whingers and doomsayers is embarrassing to the sport. If you don't like it, do one...

[uChallenge Cup Semi Final Attendances - Pre & Post SL era comparison[/u

[uSL ERA (18 seasons)[/u
=#FF00002013 = 16,895
2012 = 22,333
2011 = 25,871
2010 = 27,532
2009 = 23,613
2008 = 34,558
2007 = 24,534
2006 = 25,442
2005 = 26,716
2004 = 24,309
2003 = 34,477
2002 = 27,855
2001 = 30,272
2000 = 29,962
1999 = 30,999
1998 = 18,019
1997 = 30,773
1996 = 30,563
----------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL = 484,723 from 36 CC Semi Finals = Avg: 13,465
----------------------------------------------------------------------

[uPRE-SL ERA (18 seasons)[/u
1995 = 34,234
1994 = 37,820
1993 = 33,908
1992 = 32,663
1991 = 35,166
1990 = 42,120
1989 = 43,648
1988 = 66,435* Includes CC Semi Final Replay
1987 = 29,169
1986 = 68,781* Includes CC Semi Final Replay
1985 = 61,225* Includes CC Semi Final Replay
1984 = 31,202
1983 = 36,815
1982 = 34,282
1981 = 29,697
1980 = 36,257
1979 = 26,717
1978 = 28,991
--------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL = 709,130 from 39 CC Semi Finals = Avg: 18,183
--------------------------------------------------------------------
% decrease in CC Semi Final Total Attendance = -31.65%
--------------------------------------------------------------------
% decrease in CC Semi Final Avg Attendance = -25.95%
--------------------------------------------------------------------