Lote Tuqiri left Rugby League in 2003 and joined the ARU – after having his contract terminated in 2009, he joined the Leicester Tigers in the English Premiership and then he returned to Rugby League with Wests, seven years after he left and at 31 years of age

Now, he is playing on the wing for Australia in the 4 Nations

I will restate my question – what does this tell you about the depth of the playing pool in Australia?

Every time he had to fill in at centre for Wigan he has been poor and all over the place defensively. He is never a centre in SL never mind internationally.

We have to play somebody at centre at the end of the day and with both Atkins and Shenton looking like they're missing guys like Widdop, Joel Tomkins, Briscoe etc will all be looked at as options to fill in.

I'd choose the first 2 as I believe both would cause plenty of problems attacking the Australian line.

He's rarely had to fill in for us at centre and when he has done it's been part way through a game after shifting from 2nd row where he's been putting one of his lung busting shifts in.

Maybe it's a sad indication of our options but he'd be my choice.

Just for you Barry McKenzie will restate his answer.

Lote Tuquiri got in the side because [size=150 he had a decent season for the Tigpies and Tim Sheens is his club coach as well as the Australia international coach.[/size

I even made the font just that little bit bigger in case you missed it first time round.

We all know the superb quality and depth of RL in Australia.... whatever the competition. As it has been for as long as I care to remember.



Yet if the coach wants Tuquiri... the coach gets Tuquiri.

So, if England had selected a 31 year old on the wing who had spent the past 7 seasons in Rugby Union, you would have the same opinion?

How many times he has had to do it is irrelevant though. Each time he has he has been poor and at fault for tries because he is all at sea in defence, he also cannot pass as a centre and isnt particularly quick as a centre. If it doesnt work in SL it certainly shouldnt be considered for England. At least the likes of Cudjoe, Briscoe, Goulding, Clubb and even Ellis have experience there, Joel has little and has shown nothing that says he would be anywhere near as good as the players mentioned (and that is coming from someone that doesnt rate Clubb one bit). The Australian's would run around him for fun.

If he was good and could potentially do a good job for his country, his age or background wouldnt be an issue to me.

Far more sensible to select a decent player who plays regularly for his superleague team rather than one who can't even manage to get a regular game for his club ....whether he plays in the NRL or not.

I smiled on here a few months ago.. just before the England v France game I think.

As soon as the majority of people heard about little Widdles and they found out he was English it was all 'Quick, sign him up before the Aussies get him' etc etc.

ummm... I don't think we would have been interested. Sorry.


Barry McKenzie is not a betting man but I would wager not many users of this forum had ever heard of poor old Widdles 8 months or so ago.

But because he plays in the NRL (ok..because he is registered with an NRL club) suddenly the bloke is the English version of Billy Slater.


The England selectors really need to sit down and have a word with themselves.

I totally agree. I never agreed with Widdop's selection in the first place and based on what he has shown so far still dont. Various people have selected him in their teams at full back, centre and even stand off based merely on the fact he is a reserve player at a NRL side. I have already said that I dont think he deserves the criticism he has got from some about his performance on Saturday as he wasnt that bad. However by the same token I dont see what he has done to justify the blind faith shown in him by some. He certainly didnt look that great at centre and now some want him to be selected there before bone fide centres that play there week in, week out. Again this is based on what exactly? He is not that quick and not that strong and was beaten time and again there on Saturday. I just cant see what makes him this automatic inclusion that some seem to think he is, he certainly wouldnt be if he played for Wakefield or Salford.

Tomkins
Cudjoe
Briscoe
Atkins
Goulding

or

Tomkins
Briscoe
Ellis
Atkins
Goulding

Or

Tomkins
Widdop
Ellis
Briscoe
Goulding

or

???

One other option is to put Goulding at centre. He's been on the wing this season for Wigan but prior to that his career was spent at centre.
Goulding right centre and Cudjoe his wingman.
Joel T is a non starter, Westwood is now too bulked up, Clubb isn't good enough and shouldn't have gone.
My team,

S Tomkins,
Cudjoe, Goulding, Atkins, Briscoe,
Brown, Robinson,
Graham, Roby, Fielden,
Burgess, Ellis.
O'Loughlin.
Bench, Carvell, Lunt, Crabtree, Harrison.

At last!!

Someone else who talks sense!

Yes, Tuquiri shouldn't have played today,but then again he is from Fiji who probably shouldn't been picked for Australia in the 1st place,same goes for Petero,Willie Mason,Michael Jennings etc.

The depth of talent is so great they (the A.R.L) still dangle the Origin carrot for any quality south sea islander who plays in the N.R.L.

Attitude of we will have them so nobody else can,and then are critical of other countries lack of quality

I'd go:

1 Widdop
2 Goulding
3 Joel
4 Briscoe
5 Hall/Cudjoe - Depending on whether Hall has recovered
6 Brown
7 Sam
8 Graham
9 Roby
10 Fielden
11 Ellis
12 Burgess
13 O'Loughlin

14 Robinson
15 Westwood
16 Harrison
17 Crabtree

It's a real shame for Shenton, he had a great second half. Atkins needs dropping, looked like a fish out of water, then got injured. Joel Tomkins isn't my ideal choice for centre but he's strong and pretty fast, at least he would shore up the defence. I'm loathe to pick Brown because he's a poor defender but at least he looked lively and nearly scored, not like we're overwhelmed with half back choices. Griffin dropped because he did sod all. Fielden wasn't much better with his errors but Carvell would be no better.

Ellis? Gareth Ellis? In the centres? Jeeze you had some stiff competition but that has to be the most stupid comment here all weekend.

I like your starting 13, but I'd keep Westwood in the team. I thought he played well on saturday, at the least equal to Burgess/Ellis.
I agree with your inclusion of Crabtree, think he deserves a spot and could cause problems with his offload.
Wouldn't play Carvell.

S Tomkins
Cudjoe, Goulding, Atkins, Briscoe
Brown, Robinson
Graham, Roby, Fielden
Ellis, Burgess,
O'Loughlin

Crabtree
Griffin (not brilliant, but not the worst and probably better than Carvell)
Westwood
Lunt (interchange Hooker with Roby/Robinson).


Griffin keeps his spot purely because I feel that we need to have 2 props on the bench, and I think he's better than Carvell. I'd like to see Westwood stick to the back row, as I think he'll do best there.

The only other possibility would be a bench of Lunt, Crabtree, Westwood, Tomkins/Harrison, and then have one of the 2 backrowers interchange with Burgess, but when Burgess comes back on the pitch he plays prop.

To be fair to MB, Ellis used to play centre when he was at Wakefield

He also played centre for Leeds as well,and tbh he more or less runs a centre's lines in a game,maybe the coach should try him there.

I thought Tony Clubb was picked as a centre in this squad.......or is he only there to carry suitcases? Don't see the point in bringing a player on tour and then playing other people out of position because you don't think he can do a job for you.....very odd.

Ellis has, possibly, bulked up a little too much, too play centre. However, if Shenton is out injured, I can only see two or three options: Tomkins, a pacey/skillful backrower, but many are questioning his positional play, Goulding, looked far better when playing for Salford in the centres than he did for Wigan (not that I would use this for international recognition) and Ellis, but is he quick enough at international level. Some have mentioned Briscoe, but even when you consider his freakish strength I would still be worried about his lack of height!!

I would go for:

Backs

Tomkins - release him for the ties of organising the team.
Hall - If he's fit
Goulding - because we didn't take anyone better
Ellis - only because he can't be any worse than Atkins/maybe give Widdop a shot as I don't like young players being made scapegoats.
Briscoe - Needs to learn his potential
O'Loughlin - Really don't think he has the pace to be an international 6, but Brown definitely wasn't upto the job.
Robinson - One of our more dangerous players, so he's earnt another chance.

Forwards

Burgess - Played his best rugby for England last season at 13.
Westwood - Nuff said
Tomkins - Give him his chance and see if he can take it.
Graham - Still think he needs to get it out of his head that he's an extra stand off.
Roby - We've fallen along away since Cunningham/Newton/Lowes, but he is the best of a bad bunch.
Fielden - Got his critics, but is the most likely option to come good.

Bench

Lunt - because he can play hooker
Harrison - Same as J. Tomkins
Carvell - Has international experience and Griffin looked far too slow.
Crabtree -Should have played on Saturday

For me Clubb is not good enough and they should of picked Gleeson instead of him.

Playing players out of position has been GB/Eng downfall for years-Pan face, Scully, Sykes, Pryce to name a few

I'd go with:

Tomkins
Goulding
Cudjoe / Briscoe
Tomkins
Briscoe / Cudjoe
Brown
Robinson

Tony Clubb is exceptional....at sucking really bad.

How many yards of pace ago?

what this thread shows is why we shouldnt be so critical of McNamara...

how many different propositions have people put forward? and how many 'others' should have been taken?

it suggests we have either:

a) an exceptional group in which its hard to pick out the very best performer; or
b) a pretty average group, in which no one stands out.

we know which of those is true, but given how hard we're finding it to select the best option, how McNamara can be criticised so much is beyond me.