Who even mentioned the Championship in revenue sharing?



All gate & merchandise money from every SL team would be split evenly amongst the other SL teams (and maybe the RFL)...not the Championship.

There's no "donating" either considering every team would be doing it - not just Wigan etc. Sponsors would also be kept by the teams that find them.

Of course Wigan & Leeds fans aren't going to like any idea that will make the competition better because why would you want to make it harder to see your teams win things every year?

As for the Salford thing - why not copy La Liga and have individual TV deals to make Wigan & Leeds even better because that will be good for the game

Think about it. Under a 3-year licencing system, the Championship club would be facing a team at the bottom of Super League that has had 3 years to develop, and not just one like Widnes. So, it may not be as easy as you may think.

Under P&R, then the club you face wouldn't be in a position to grow slowly and experiment with young players and inexperienced coaches. They would have to be much better in order to avoid the bottom, even if they inevitably don't. So, you probably wouldn't be facing a Widnes side that is as poor as it is now.



But why is that better than the team that finishes bottom of Super League just having to accept their fate, while two evenly matched teams battle it out, in a culmination of the Championship season, in order to win the right to replace them?

It seems a fairer way of doing things to me, while guaranteeing that Super League will get fresh blood.

The only problem that I see is that, under the licence system, this could be a death sentence for some Championship clubs, because they will be locked in there for 3 years. You can see what that did to the Crusaders. That's why Widnes got the licence. Under a licence system, that makes sense, but the major flaw in that situation is there for all to see. So, a return to annual P&R would have to happen, in order to make any of this feasible for most, if not all, Championship clubs.

Like you say, it is unlikely that there will be an about face by the RFL anytime soon, and licencing will remain anyway.

there would'nt be a 3 year licence system....

Which is why I also addressed the same situation under P&R, and why it was still an unfair way of deciding who goes to Super League. Even with Widnes as poor as they are, the odds are still massively stacked in their favour. If we had P&R, then Widnes would not have the team or coach they have now.

Why chose such an unfair system, when we already had a very good way of deciding who goes up and down, long before licencing was ever thought of, and is clearly a much fairer option?

Licensing is here and for the foreseeable is here to stay. Some politician decides to talk about bringing P&R back. If he'd of looked on RLFANS he would have seen that what he said had been said on here years ago.

In the Championship, there are maybe 2 or 3 teams who could possibly with a lot of hard work, get into Superleague, but as you can see from Widnes this season, there is a massive gulf in class. I'm afraid that unless you have crowds of 10k plus or someone willing to bankroll you indefinately then you wouldn't survive in Superleague.

Franchising is a good thing and is good for Superleague, its just that the RFL aren't doing it right. Just because we used to have P&R doesn't mean we should always have P&R. We used to roof our houses with asbestos. Would you still do that now?

LifeLong HKRFan,
You had better hope Mr Hudgell continues to fund you then because you don't have a 10,000 average, in fact your crowds are dropping and Mr Hudgell has stated he cannot subsidise the club indefinitly.

Hull KR bridged the gulf in class when they were promoted. Maybe Widnes did just not do such a good job. They had a poor team in CC last year, and their coach has never set the world on fire. Perhaps their recuiting was also sub standard.

Licencing is here to stay, it is neccessary to protect the financial support given to around 50% of current SL clubs, without it we could see the demise of several clubs in the next few years, as it is only London look like failing ( unless the RFL and or SKY come to their rescue, correctly IMO )

However it is making the gap between SL and the Championship wider and ultimatly it is damaging the clubs outside it , what is required is a change of direction by the RFL in the way they see the semi pro competitions, they seem to think the Championships are just a poorer version of SL, but it is very different, the TV coverage is worthless and therefore should be dropped apart from the NRC final and the GF s, they need to be marketed to their local populaces, and that is where the RFL should be looking to find and spend money

That is of course if they value the lower tiers at all.

Quite right, I hope he does carry on subsidizing them because if he didn't then we would be in a mess unless we can get a 10k average. My point is that you either need a 10k average or someone to back the club. Widnes have a backer, London also have a backer. Has any of the teams currently in the Championship have a wealthy backer to fund them in Superleague?

Franchising is not going to go away and I don't believe it should. Maybe there is a better way of doing it but P&R is not the answer.

The only reason Hull KR stayed up for that year was because there was a team even worse than us in the Superleague. Hull KR were the exception and most other teams who have been promoted during the P&R days went straight back down and it would almost certainly be the case if we brought P&R back.

HKR went for broke in 2006, failure would have seen them probably back in administration. They went for broke because they knew the drawbridge was almost up.
I have a lot of respect for the HKR 1500 hardcore who kept the club going for the Glory boys to jump back onto in 2005/6/7
How is the lad with the 10-5 flag doing these days, great bloke.

Works perfectly for me. Said it before myself.
The only thing I'd add is that the top team in tier 2 can chose not to go up and keep getting the money, so they can build at their pace rather than going bust trying on first attempt.

But the licencing system is snapshot of the League as it existed at the time it was introduced - more or less. If that snapshot had been taken before Hull KR, had been promoted they'd be marooned in the championship trying to maintain the same standard for three years. As for promoted teams going straight back down, what about Wakefield, Huddersfield, Cas, Hull FC, Salford - all promoted in the P&R era -all still there. The only promoted team to bring P&R into disrepute IMO are Celtic Crusaders/Crusaders with their inelligible players and last minute withdrawal last season.
When under P&R did we have a player suing the RFL because of a failed transfer?

Huddersfield and Hull were saved from relegation due to going bust etc. The others were promoted when Superleague was still in its infancy. P&R would not work now due to the gulf in class between the 2 leagues. The only way it would work is by bringing the SL clubs down closer to the championship level. That wouldn't be fair to the SL clubs after the hard work they have put in over the years just so the championship clubs can have a crack at super league. It is up to the Championship clubs to improve vastly which I can't see happening.

No

The only way is to improve the Championships , that in itself would force the current SL clubs to improve to remain in SL

Yes you are correct , the clubs have to improve , but they require help to do so , There is no way HKR s current owner would support them in the Championships now as he did with P and R in place

But to help the championship clubs, you will have to spread the current resources more thinly thus bringing down the SL clubs.

Quote Promotion woukld not work now because of the gulf in class between the two leagues"

You mean the gulf that was demosntrated in Fev V Cas and Wigan and Batley V Broncos in the cup. That gulf in class.

Where have I suggested that SL money is spent on the Championships?

It is about best use of resources, not just the amount you spend

I also didn't mention money.

So what ' resources ' were you reffering to?

What are the average attendances for the top Championship clubs?They will need better crowds and the Gulf is big.Look at Featherstone after games against Superleague teams, as took it out of them as got smashed in the Championship in the next game.Games are intense every week in Superleague.

So surely that is the challenge Andy? , if it just a case of " well the Championships have always had poor attendances, there is nothing that can be done " then its time to just pack it in

I understand your points and it Ashame not more money in the game.I love promotion and relegation as fun end of the season.But due to a big gulf in salary cap of £300,000 and over 1.2 million to 1.8 million makes it difficult.I am hoping at my club next season we spend more on players and get rid of the garbage.Adjustment is big and if was relegation we be straight back down.We was poor in the Championship, but not all players want to be fulltime,as some fulltime are not so better off if had another job.

NOt for the bottom teams they aren't. As Tomkins said last week, they play competitively for 20 minutes or so but if they go a couple of tried behind to one of the top teams they turn it in, because they know there's no danger of relegation so why pull your tripes out? The bottom of Super League is a joke comp. The lack of intensity week by week is why our top players are unable to beat Australia. We need some way to motivate the bottom teams and nothing motivates a team like fear. That is what all sport is about. Hopes and fears. It's also why crowds turn out. When Wigan's results became predictable in the late eighties, early nineties, despite their success their crowds actually diminished.
The classic example of what promotion and relegation can do in terms of international sport is English cricket. Under the old County Championship when by July most players were just going through the motions we were the world's easybeats. Now after the introduction of P&R we are challengers for the no 1 Test team spot.

P&R is not the reason for the England cricket team doing well. Central contracts and a change in coaching is the reason.

If not money then what other resources are you talking about ?

The revival in England cricket came after the introduction of P & R into the County Championship - it's pressure and intensity that builds international players, not comfort zones. The Aussies don't P&R that's true, but they do have the incentive of the State of Origin team. The money they can make playing SOO must drive them to excel.