Other way round.

You can't have watched him play much or you wouldn't be making these comments. Lydon was a complete one off and miles better than any British centre playing the game today or even in the past 10 years. The Aussies called him just enough Joe, he never seemed to put himself out yet could turn a game on a sixpence.

I was a season ticket holder at Central Park from 1986 to the late 90’s... is that enough?

I stand by my point. Joe Lydon was a good player, he was quick and elusive but that is the norm for a modern day Rugby league player. Unlike the likes of Schofield and Hanley, I don’t think there is anything about Lydon that would make him excel in today’s Super league where the level of conditioning and athleticism is far higher and defences more organised than when he was playing

You have a different opinion and of course you are entitled to it

Oh, and p.s. if the Aussies did call him ‘just enough Joe’ then maybe he should have done a bit more and we would have won a few more games!

For me, Atkins has been the most impressive English centre I've seen this season. However, his passing is quite poor and he probably has the best job in SL down Warrington's left channel. Still, if we're picking up form, I'd rather see him in there rather than Shenton or Bridge.

Would have Yeaman or Lawrence above Atkins for the left centre spot.

I respect your opinion but imo, Lydon was far better on his worst day, than Shenton is on his best. As regards him showing touches of brilliance that would lead you to think he'd make it in todays game, 60 mtr drop kick against Warrington , try he scored against the Aussies, trys he scored against us at Wembley, his tactics against Manley, the list goes on. Peter Sterling picked him in his dream team around 1991 or so.

Hall's up there with the best wingers in SL, but I don't think that's much of a claim at the moment, none of them would be likely to get a run for the Ausies or Kiwis if they were eligible. I do think Tom Briscoe has something about him, could be something there, but I'm not convinced about his pace, maybe he'll mature into a top class centre?

Interesting to get the chance to compare Atkins to one of the other inform English left centres in Kirk Yeamen in the Hull vs Warrington last weekend.

He's been mighty impressive when I've seen him this year, but you know fromm seeing him in the past that when we're under the cosh and he's defending against and Aus or NZ attack that it won't be long until they make a real Ass of him.

Take him. He's played a bit of 13 for wire. He could make a real impact coming off the bench in that role. His all round athletisism is a rare treat in british players and his form this year deserves some sort of recognition.

Shenton has missed 27 tackles this season compared to atkins 10

carmont has missed 25 and yeaman has missed 20

so much for the atkins dodgy defence myth.

Shenton appears to be the opposite of Atkins in defence. Positionally good and hard to get around, but flaps with his arms too often in contact, hence the high missed count.

The only definite centre for me is Chris Bridge, other than that a few in form people could stake a claim to the other centre position, though for what it's worth I think Atkins would get found out again.

A few injuries starting to mount up for all four nations teams (except Wales) so it could be a year of a few new guys getting a go.

Atkins, to my mind, was a revelation this weekend and I saw plenty of him at Wakefield to believe he'd never make a centre. I hope it wasn't a one of performance and he keeps on learning.

Maybe he's not even laying a finger on them, hence he's not getting a missed tackle stat?

good point.

If I was to have him anywhere in the team, I would have him on the wing. The problem we have if that our best players aren't exposed to regular instense game during the season. This is down to poor opposition and too many crap teams in super league.

That has always been my opinion on Atkins. He has the physical potential to be one of the best wingers in the world.

England would look so much more solid with wingers like Atkins and McGilvray that wouldn't get bullied and ragdolled like they usually do. Big centres in Shenton and Reed too.

1 - Welle.... Tomkins
2 - McGilvray
3 - Shenton
4 - Reed
5 - Atkins
6 - Widdop
7 - Lomax
8 - Graham
9 - Roby
10 - Carvell
11 - Ellis
12 - Burgess
13 - Westwood

Is the ideal 13, I take it Burgess will be out?

I was really looking forward to seeing Atkins play in the 4 Nations last year and I (like many) was very disappointed when he came up short

Having said that, he has improved his game again this year – in particular his passing game has improved considerably and (to quote Phil Clarke) he threw a pass at the weekend that we wouldn’t have been capable of last year

If we do give him a run in the 4 Nations then we need to do this in the position that he has been played all year – the left centre – otherwise we are doing him and the team a disservice. For me, picking the team on form, the left centre seems to be a straight matchup between Yeaman and Atkins. In Atkins favour, he is bigger and faster than Yeaman while neither have an exceptional passing game. In Yeaman’s favour, he is probably a safer bet than Atkins as you would expect him to be sound defensively and he has certainly taken his chance internationally before and not looked out of place. Also, he would form a club wing/centre partnership as you would expect Briscoe to get the nod on the left wing

This is a really hard call for me as Atkins was poor last year... but if Wire make a run all the way to the Grand Final and Atkins plays well I would be just about tempted to go with him as we will not beat Australia and New Zealand by going for the safer options and we need a backline full of athletes for me

If Yeaman got the nod, I would be comfortable with that... what I definitely wouldn’t want to see of players playing out of position

Not picking Jack Reed Dunbar?

I love it when people try and isolate statistics and claim they show the full picture.

Yeaman - 224 tackles, 20 missed. (You can have that one!)

Atkins - 278 tackles, 10 missed.

Carmont - 448 tackles, 25 missed.

Shenton - 618 tackles, 27 missed.

So while Atkins does indeed miss fewer tackles, he makes a hell of a lot less of them too.

To be honest, I’ve not seen enough of him to make a call (plus not sure if he will be an English player)

Looking at Super League, I would say we have a little competition for centre these days. Atkins, Yeaman, Welham and Laurence for left centre and then another group who could do a job at right centre – Watkins, Bridge and Shenton in particular plus J Tomkins who has played a full season there

If winning the 4 Nations was a priority, I would probably go for Yeaman and Bridge but if we were looking to build for the future I think Atkins and Watkins could become a very athletic and dangerous centre pairing if they continue to develop as they are

Lies, damn lies.....
Good post there.

Maybe Warrington spend so much time attacking Atkins doesn't have the opportunity to make as many tackles. Attack being the best form of defence.

Perhaps - but the point of that post was to highlight that you can't use a missed tackle stat without clarifying it.

On their own, it looks like his defence is vastly tighter than that of Carmont and Shenton. But when you realise that they have made 170 and 340 more tackles respectively, you see that it isn't as impressive as when the stat is there on its own.

I'm not taking anything away from Atkins, but the post I quoted was selective and misleading.

Just to be fair, here's Welham's

Tackles completed 355
Tackles missed 57

13.8% missed tackle rate.