I understand your view point but I personally don't understand the punishment idea and what it achieves whether It's Toronto or any club.

Maybe it's time for a different approach. Bradford are the perfect example imo.

What you can't understand why there should be a punishment after the way they have treated their players, you could say it's theft of income legally they haven't a leg to stand on and what it achieves is to warn others of the same that the same would happen.

As for Bradford they got off lightly

The "punishment" is designed to try and prevent ANY club going bust and restarting the following week or month, with a clean slate which ultimately gives them a financial advantage.
Also, IIRC, HMRC took a very dim view of this due to it effectively being a "tax dodge", which is why football and RL brought in the additional "penalty".
It's almost unique though as, back in the real world, companies do go bust and effectively start again without penalty.

There has to be some disincentive for clubs going bust and a points deduction of forced relegation seems wholly appropriate.

The two answers to you (on the previous page) sum it up. It would be a very dangerous precedent if TW were re-invited to SL without serious sanctions and I am very much in favour of relegation, which even before withdrawing from the competition they were well on course for anyway.

I understand the deterant point of view but my view is that maybe another solution can be implemented because the current punishment imo doesn't achieve anything.

Bradford are a shell of what they used to be and you could argue the same of Widnes. Perhaps if a different ruling was applied these two would be a lot stronger. RL shoots itself in the foot enough as it is and this type of punishment hurts no one apart from RL.

Perhaps salary cap exemption similar to what the Nrl applies?

I think that you are significantly missing the point here.

If we are talking wrong doing, then, surely, racking up debts and not paying them off seems far more harsh on those that haven't been paid, than getting a points deduction or demotion.
The idea is not to run your business so badly as to not be able to service the accrued debts.

Things like covid, where businesses are prevented from functioning due to instructions from Government are somewhat out of the ordinary and this may cause multiple clubs to fail and you could say that this would be through no fault of their own. After all, nobody could have reasonably foreseen this coming.

It's absolutely right that there should be some additional "loss" for clubs that go bust but, wish to continue in the league structure and yes, the "new (re formed) club is likely going to find it harder going but, again, that seems reasonable.
It may be that they have, by not paying their debts, forced other suppliers to go to the wall or not paid their staff etc or, should we just ignore that fact.

Clearly the whole of Bradford would be utterly furious if TWP escaped such penalties.

[i"ROBERT Elstone has told Toronto Wolfpack to prove whether it is worth having a Super League team in Canada. The Canadian side has been given four weeks to redraw a ‘frankly disappointing’ plan to stay in the top flight.

The club has to prove it’s viable in its own right firstly but the question beyond that is will Super League be better off at some point in the foreseeable future from having a team in Toronto? Give us an indication that Super League in Canada makes commercial sense?”.[/i

So it's clear they are not re-invited and are challenged with coming up with the following

1. How can they be financially viable given Argyle lost £Millions and £Millions?
2. What can they offer to the game here?

What are your answers to these two questions Elstone poses of TWP?

So what are Toronto then?

It's clear they are not re-invited YET.

Until any resumbission is received and reviewed we await a decision.

As for the two questions above, they are for TW to answer. Not sure why you would think I need to provide responses.

Possibly because this is a discussion website, you don't "need" to do anything you were just invited to discuss the matter?

It would be great if you practiced what you preach.

Well that took some time.

I had a colleague a few years ago who used to say 'If I'd had more time I would have written a shorter response'. Puts me in mind of that.

Every action has a reaction, crimes/law/rules will be repeatedly broken without deterrents or punishment ! It's really not difficult.

Well it appears the Toronto deal is simple

Put us back in Super league with full TV money and three years relegation exemption or the players won’t be paid and the fans both Canadian and UK wont be reimbursed. They can’t afford to pay Ticketmaster the money back to pay the fans.

If the RFL and Super league cave into this it’s the end for Rugby League as we know it.

Surely an 11 team Super league next year with promotion from the Championship leaves £2 million quid free to pay the players (directly not via Toronto) and consider whether to reimburse the fans.... not bring back this broken model of a failed Rugby League club.

Next they will be saying Toronto’s great gesture in dropping out allowed us to switch fixtures like Hull tonight and their great gesture should be recognised.

Daft statement yup... but no dafter than agreeing their terms and letting them back in....

Because its a discussion website of course. Your one of a few on here that don't get that



Read the title the mods gave it [i"discussion thread"[/i

You can be sure now

Are you still of the impression it was Covid that sent TWP bust and meant suppliers and players were not paid? Long before Covid, Argyle was not paying bills, and TWP were rattling on about their Snake Oil then. Do you really believe David Argyle has gone from a $$Billionaire to penniless?

The stock market dropped initially by going on for a third of it's value but it VERY quickly started building back and has risen significantly as the rich stay rich and the poor as usual take the hit. Even if Argyle was only a "single" £Billionaire that would be what? £100 Million. Even if he lost half of that it's still £50 Million. Paying his debts is very easy indeed.

He chooses not to. Livolsi equally can muck about with TWP and walk when bored. I wouldn't mind but Livolsi had so little interest that when he made his submission to Superleague he was actually making demands of them (we must not be relegated....We must be given SKY money etc).

On the day TWP beat Featherstone to get promotion to SL did they demand SKY money and a three year stay of relegation then?

For somebody who is obsessed by Argyles billions' and I've used the plural, I make no wonder the poor buggers skint if he's only getting one hundred million for every thousand million he has

Well they didn't agree TWP's terms and didn't let them back in. What they have effectively done is allow them an appeal, which is something very common in the western world. What a successful appeal would look like I dunno but if Livolsi agreed to start again in Championship One and pay off all debts immediately then [uwould you be against letting them back in??[/u

After all that would give us a North American derby with Ottawa and then New York and maybe the North American game could grow organically as opposed to throwing £30Million at it short term and losing the lot?

Rimmer is all for them, and as a result the decision to delay a decision was to give time to explore whether to continue with the North American dream. The thing here is if TWP are just chopped out with a possible rich owner then it leaves Ottawa and New York high and dry. I don't think the TWP decision is a no brainer when saying "no" would effectively kill North America for good.

You seem obsessed with me, none of your posts are about RL

I can only comment on what I read squire, and pointing out to you your not a mathematical genius isn't really having an obsession about you, I'm just pointing out another of your errors

, btw other than Argyles demise financially (thanks to you

) and Toronto, I'm more than happy to talk about rugby league from grass roots level upwards, are you capable of discussing these things? if that's a yes then I look forward to seeing you on other threads.

Follow the board rules, do the mods a favour and use the ignore button.

I'm following the board rules squire no personal abuse from me to you and I'm also doing the mods a favour by sticking to the AUP rules, I did use the ignore button but unfortunately posters kept on quoting you and so I was reading your propaganda anyway, and on balance was slightly less irritating than having a screen full of yellow bands across it. HTH

You've now quoted and responded TWICE ... Why I wonder?... looking to pick a fight because I'm not interested in your constant barrage of posts perhaps.

You're suddenly very opinionated about me and come across as arrogant and condescending.

I choose, as one of the mods you refer to, not to get too deeply involved in discussions in either the VT or SB. It tends to simplify things when moderation and intervention is necessary.

My little lad said to me yesterday "Dad I would love a cowboy outfit for Xmas", so I've decided to buy him Toronto Wolfpack.