Back on topic.
Before union worry about getting rid of flankers they need to sort out the fact that they play two different codes, what we know as union in the northern hemisphere, and Super Series (or as I call it "Rugby League with line outs"icon_wink.gif.

On the point of defending teams not committing players at the breakdown, this is already happening. Often there is only a single token defender committed to a ruck.

As for a merger of RU and RL, this is more likely to come from Aus. where there is less class history, and where Super Series is already blurring the lines. But the power in RU is still in England, and the money in RU is still in the south of France. Both of those will resist a merger tooth and nail for a while yet.

'Ways to make rugby a safer sport' on BBC Sport site... www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31641675 Thought I'd give this a look as there's probably plenty of common ground here, 2nd suggestion 'Make head-guards compulsory for junior players' really caught my eye... "When Solly plays for his the club it's limited contact - one proper tackle, release the man after three seconds, a set of six tackles a side" That sounds kinda familiar. It could catch on. Certainly not the usual 'posh kids walking around a field a bit while the poshest boy in the school kicks at goal' crapfest. How long has 'Union' been getting taught like this?

'Ways to make rugby a safer sport' on BBC Sport site... www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31641675 Thought I'd give this a look as there's probably plenty of common ground here, 2nd suggestion 'Make head-guards compulsory for junior players' really caught my eye... "When Solly plays for his the club it's limited contact - one proper tackle, release the man after three seconds, a set of six tackles a side" That sounds kinda familiar. It could catch on. Certainly not the usual 'posh kids walking around a field a bit while the poshest boy in the school kicks at goal' crapfest. How long has 'Union' been getting taught like this?

If union go to 13 and speed up there ruck play as the welsh are already doing and league slow right down the play the ball then there is a potential for a hybrid game this decade.

No there's potential for the Union Governing bodies to admit the Northern boys were right and League is the better game.

Once that happens they can develop to a "League Model" by pass rugby league and that could be bye bye Superleague as I can't see SKY sponsoring it if the games are going similar.
It might be quite a few years yet, but if the RL keep the downward spiral of marketing, sponsors and media objectives and add the weak salary cap then most clubs will go part time or worse the bigger clubs could look at the financial advantage of promoting a hybrid game with the bigger union clubs.
Our game has lost its intensity and is getting spoiled with technical foul play by the players and rule inconsistency by the officials, our game needs a complete overhaul.

Time for Big Nigel to earn his corn and arrange some kind of protection of RL's identity. By all means allow Union to revert to 13 a-side, but the world needs to know that it's an adaptation of the league code before our sport gets lost in the union publicity machine. There could also be a lot of mileage in RL milking the fact that union is becoming more like the greatest game of this happened.

Be proactive now Nigel, before Union do this as we don't have the resources to fight it after they've done it.

I won't hold my breath

I've long suspected that the future of both codes would rest on a couple of things.

Firstly, the evolution of Union and more specifically how much like Rugby League Rugby union could become before the two sports are almost indistinguishable from each other bar a few specific rules like line outs.

Secondly, sky televisions desire to have another sport which rivals football or at least gets as close as any other sport could.
If Rugby union were to reduce the number of players to 13 and start policing their rucks and mauls more than they do at present in an effort to speed and tidy them up, then I can envisage a TV offer from sky which tries to force the top clubs from both sports to play in a hybrid league.

Imagine if the next television negotiations an offer of £200 million for five years is placed on the table of both league and union take it or leave it.

However a second offer is placed on the table £1.5 billion for three years to cover a league which will see the top clubs from rugby league and the top clubs from rugby union playing against each other in a hybrid competition.

Wigan v Bath, Leeds v Leicester, Northampton V Saint Helens, Hull v London, Warrington v Cardiff, Newcastle v Gloucester, Manchester Reds v Saracens, Wakefield City v Wasps

The powerbrokers from super league and Unions premiership would find it hard to turn down such a proposition. Rugby league would obviously carry on in the lower divisions as would Union in its lower divisions.

Aside from initial novelty value. What sustainable future would this have for fans? Fans who really like Rugby Union. And fans who really like Rugby League. I don't think there would be a sustainable market for it since there's no passion or interest in a hybrid game. Or is there?

If Union continues to change its rules and it isn't a huge leap from Union to hybrid rules then I think fans will watch the hybrid game because that competition will contain all the high quality teams.

The higher value TV contract would enable a higher salary cap, better facilities therefore better trained and prepared athletes. If SKY threw their marketing and promotions campeign 100% behind it then what was left of League and Union would struggle for exposure and presence.

In the end the quality of the clubs, the truly National presence, that neither Union or League genuinely have at the moment, and the higher profile would see it prosper.

With the ARU bankrupt and SKYs Corporate partners being big players in Australia and NZ it wouldn't be hard to see them being forced into some form of reunification/hybrid as well.

Just musing but if a reunification was ever to happen I think this is how it would take place

I've thought about this in the past, but the key to a hybrid game is not 15 or 13 a-side, or line-outs, or scrums, or even the distance you have to retire from the ruck. The key is how you recycle the ball, and whether you give protected possession to one side for a period. If I had to boil down the difference between the games to one point, it would be this : in League, you have protected possession for 6 tackles. So you can take risks with the ball, and run in isolation away from your teammates, knowing that you will retain possession. It encourages passing play. This doesn't apply in union, where a safety fist approach (which is where all professional coaches in either game tend to go towards) mitigates against ever moving the ball away from your own forwards, and seeking to put the ball in your opponents' territory through a kick, even if you've only just received it yourself. There is a bias caused by the contested possession in Union which mitigates against passing play. In addition, while we may moan about the number of penalties at the PTB, if you compare the number of stoppages at the PTB for penalties or knock-ons, then it is tiny compared to the number of offences which occur at a contested ruck in RU, which is why their game has so many more scrums and penalties.

This is the key point. You either get to retain possession or not. There's no middle ground here. One leads to rugby league, passing, individual attack-defence confrontations, and limited stoppages for scrums/penalties, and the other leads to Union, forward-dominated play, early kicks for territory, plentiful stoppages, and very few passing plays.

I doubt league fans would watch the Union variety of the game for long - we'd find the speed of club rugby union much slower, and would rapidly get frustrated with seeing so little ball in hand. This is what prevents the codes from merging, in my view.

Yes, all that. Plus the fact that the ABs, for one, surely wouldn't have any interest in a combined code. England is not the centre of the rugby universe.

All that could change under a hybrid game, Union probably are on the way to losing 2 lock forwards if they are going to 13, this might mean a big impact of line outs, scrums and ruck play. In a hybrid game I can see the line out disappearing, keeping contested scrums and a faster ruck speed.

this thread and the obsession about RU is hilarious, 5 pages of thesis about something that'll never happen because of a few paragraphs that a no-mark journo wrote

Union is full of problems. Once Union globally decides to drop to 13 a side and abolish line-outs I can see a re-unification of rugby under a single code and the rules can evolve from there.

Within 5 years of re-unification, the England team would be made up largely of players from Yorkshire / Lancashire and England would win the World Cup.

Unions full of problems? It can't be doing that bad, you pay good money to watch it



if only it had the money, geographical spread and was in the Olympics like RL. Oh hang on...

People pay good money to watch One Direction concerts globally too.

Yeah but it's undeniably the most overrated, tedious, unskillful game on the planet.

Without the old school tie brigade and British Empire spreading influence it wouldn't be anywhere. Give Rugby League the same leg up that Union has enjoyed and without doubt it would be a bigger better game.

Only a fool would deny that!

One Direction and Justin Bieber are comprehensive proof that attendances and popularity are no guarantee of quality.

Judder I was ridiculed and derided by the 'leagues i know best mob' ages ago for daring to even suggest such a folly.
For even daring to suggest that Union was following a similar evolution exactly 100 years after we turned professional was like i had uttered a heresy.
Its inevitable,anybody want to know what happens next in union rewind to leagues evolution from the dark side, granted different paradigm now union becoming league-ish ,league having to face the possibility of hybridising and having to lose a few rules in order to fullfill rugby's grand plan.

Can you imagine the monumental logistics of basically what is tantamount creation of a new sport?.if I recall werent the 'northern' teams consistently the strongest before the great schism?so yes you would think the Lancs/Yorks players would be the bedrock but it would depend solely on which players adapt to the rules fastest,too many permetations.

If you think that is hilarious you havent seen what Doctor Strangelove has got up his sleeve .

Steve Hansen & Conor O'Shea might disagree with you.

We had this 120 years ago. League has evolved, Union's still stuck in 1895.

To be fair they're probably about 1903 now!

Just to live to see Inverdale's face when the working class northerners start battering the upper middle/ lower upper class southerners and he has to do commentary on it.