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| Quote ="Dico"He's still not Australian.
The only debatable one in the English squad is Rangi Chase and he hasnt lived in NZ since he was about 13. Its absolutely no different to Uate or many others Aus have picked in the past'"
Who says he is not Australian? What passport does he carry? if its Australian he is Australian.
But Chase is a Kiwi that was brought up in Australia and has lived for three years in England, until a couple of months ago he aspired to play in the NRL and wanted to represent New Zealand.
Heighington has no connection with England other than heritage, he has failed to make the NSW side year after year and has decided a Test Cap for any Nation is better than none at all.
Reed left England when he was two and up and till a month ago declared his ambition to play for Australia.
Widdop Left England as a 14 year old and has been developed by the Melbourne Storm and before last years series was debating which Nation he would represent/have the best chance of selection and chose England.
Australia has NEVER chosen a player to represent Australia with anything like the situation of the above four players.
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| Quote ="bigtruck"I always look at the england squad and think which of those players are the aussies etc going to be worried about...
Tomkins, Roby, Graham, Mozza, Ellis are the only 5 i can realistically see them worrying about.
I mean Ben Jones Bishop???? Really??????????'"
I hope the Aussies and Kiwi’s have the same attitude
The more I think about it, the more excited I am about the potential in the English backline/halves
Tomkins
Hall
Reed
Yeaman
Briscoe
Widdop
Chase
This 1-7 averages under 25 and for me is the most attacking backline we have put together for years
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| Quote ="wakey_saint"Carl Ablett (Leeds) - good player, versatile, deserves selection
Ryan Bailey (Leeds) - should no way be here, LMS, Mossop, Lynch, Griffin all better options
Tom Briscoe (Hull) - deserves selection
Garreth Carvell (Warrington) - very impressive this seaon, deserves selection
Rangi Chase (Castleford) - Not English and shouldnt be there, rather see Gaskell, Burrow, Gale given chance
Leroy Cudjoe (Huddersfield) - not good enough, Atkins a better option by far
'"
I stopped reading here.
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| So what are the likely 17s going to be?
Aus:
Slater
Boyd/Morris
Tonga
Inglis
Uate
Lockyer
Thurston
Scott
Smith
Galloway
Thaiday
Lewis
Gallen
Shillington
Watmough
Scott
Parker
Not much depth in the forwards or centres, but all the key players are still there.
England:
Tomkins
Hall
Reed
Yeaman
Briscoe
Widdop
Chase
Graham
Roby
Peacock
Ellis
Westood
Heighton
Sinfield
Morley
Carvell
JJB
NZ (I'm not really sure about this at all)
Geale
Nightingale
Taylor
Manering
Fai-Fai Loa (beast)
Benji
Fein/Foran
Packer
Leuluai
Hargreaves
Smith
Manu
Blair
Luke
Moi Moi
Matulino
Brown
Those team are based on the squads I've found on the net. I found it very hard to pick a side for Aus and NZ. NZ have a very young looking side but don't be fooled some of them are top players already. Will be a very interesting series.
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| This is the Australian team about to play the Kiwis on Sunday
KANGAROOS
1. Billy Slater
2. Akuila Uate
3. Willie Tonga
4. Chris Lawrence
5. Darius Boyd
6. Darren Lockyer (c)
7. Johnathan Thurston
8. Paul Gallen
9. Cameron Smith
10. Matt Scott
11. Luke Lewis
12. Sam Thaiday
13. Anthony Watmough
Interchange:
14. Cooper Cronk
15. Keith Galloway
16. David Shillington
17. Tony Williams
Easily the best "Spine" in the game
Inglis will be in that side come the Four Nations.
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| The Kiwi side to play Oz on Sunday.
KIWIS
1. Kevin Locke
2. Kalifa Faifai Loa
3. Lewis Brown
4. Gerard Beale
5. Jason Nightingale
6. Benji Marshall (c)
7. Kieran Foran
8. Russell Packer
9. Nathan Fien
10. Sam McKendry
11. Alex Glenn
12. Simon Mannering
13. Jeremy Smith.
Interchange:
14. Issac Luke
15. Fuifui Moimoi
16. Sika Manu
17. Jared Waerea-Hargreaves.
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| Quote ="Jonesy"This is the Australian team about to play the Kiwis on Sunday
KANGAROOS
1. Billy Slater
2. Akuila Uate
3. Willie Tonga
4. Chris Lawrence
5. Darius Boyd
6. Darren Lockyer (c)
7. Johnathan Thurston
8. Paul Gallen
9. Cameron Smith
10. Matt Scott
11. Luke Lewis
12. Sam Thaiday
13. Anthony Watmough
Interchange:
14. Cooper Cronk
15. Keith Galloway
16. David Shillington
17. Tony Williams
Easily the best "Spine" in the game
Inglis will be in that side come the Four Nations.'"
I’ve watched the Kangaroos play since ’84 and from 2 to 5 that’s among the worst backlines I can remember. All good players but nowhere near the quality that Australia has produced in the past
Inglis is top class and would make that side a whole lot better but his fitness and form are questionable
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| Quote ="Jonesy"This is the Australian team about to play the Kiwis on Sunday
KANGAROOS
1. Billy Slater
2. Akuila Uate
3. Willie Tonga
4. Chris Lawrence
5. Darius Boyd
6. Darren Lockyer (c)
7. Johnathan Thurston
8. Paul Gallen
9. Cameron Smith
10. Matt Scott
11. Luke Lewis
12. Sam Thaiday
13. Anthony Watmough
Interchange:
14. Cooper Cronk
15. Keith Galloway
16. David Shillington
17. Tony Williams
Inglis will be in that side come the Four Nations.'"
The key for the Aussies (to to a lesser extent NZ) is that despite having a few injuries all their key players (Slater/Lockyer/Thurston/Inglis/Smith) are fit to play.
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| Quote ="Dunbar"I’ve watched the Kangaroos play since ’84 and from 2 to 5 that’s among the worst backlines I can remember. All good players but nowhere near the quality that Australia has produced in the past
Inglis is top class and would make that side a whole lot better but his fitness and form are questionable'"
Boyd and Uate will be superstars, potentially they're as good as any of the Aussie wingers of the last 20 years.
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| Quote ="Dunbar"I’ve watched the Kangaroos play since ’84 and from 2 to 5 that’s among the worst backlines I can remember. All good players but nowhere near the quality that Australia has produced in the past
Inglis is top class and would make that side a whole lot better but his fitness and form are questionable'"
Not sure about that, it appears weak at first glance although..
Slater best in the World at Fullback
Uate up and comer age 24, 52 tries from 68 games in the NRL
Tonga is borderline 7 tries in 10 Tests though, 75 tries from 150 NRL games
Lawrence up and comer age 22, 55 tries in 98 NRL games
Boyd 2010 Dally M fullback of the year came third in the NRL as Dally M player of the year 2010
Thurston one of the best 5 players in the World.
Lockyer....Legend
Put Inglis in, replacing Tonga and its pretty solid.
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| Quote ="Jonesy"Not sure about that, it appears weak at first glance although..
Slater best in the World at Fullback
Uate up and comer age 24, 52 tries from 68 games in the NRL
Tonga is borderline 7 tries in 10 Tests though, 75 tries from 150 NRL games
Lawrence up and comer age 22, 55 tries in 98 NRL games
Boyd 2010 Dally M fullback of the year came third in the NRL as Dally M player of the year 2010
Thurston one of the best 5 players in the World.
Lockyer....Legend
Put Inglis in, replacing Tonga and its pretty solid.'"
If you took the time to actually read my post, you will see I said from 2 to 5... I am not talking about Slater, Thurston and Lockyer
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| Quote ="Charlie Sheen"Boyd and Uate will be superstars, potentially they're as good as any of the Aussie wingers of the last 20 years.'"
Who would you rather see on the team sheet against England, Boyd and Uate or Israel Folau and Wendell Sailor?
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| Quote ="Dunbar"If you took the time to actually read my post, you will see I said from 2 to 5... I am not talking about Slater, Thurston and Lockyer'"
As you say, swap Inglis for Lawrence and it looks very strong. Its strong than the last 3/4 line the Aussies brought over.
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| Quote ="Charlie Sheen"As you say, swap Inglis for Lawrence and it looks very strong. Its strong than the last 3/4 line the Aussies brought over.'"
Stronger than the 2009 4 Nations backline vs. England?
2. Brett Morris
3. Greg Inglis
4. Justin Hodges
5. Jarryd Hayne
I'd rather take on the 2011 team than this backline
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| Quote ="Dunbar"If you took the time to actually read my post, you will see I said from 2 to 5... I am not talking about Slater, Thurston and Lockyer'"
[i "I’ve watched the Kangaroos play since ’84 and from 2 to 5 that’s among the worst backlines I can remember"[/i
You did say that but I picked up the generalisation its one of the worst backlines you have seen in 20 years.
I have watched the Kangaroos play since the early Seventies and I have seen plenty of untried combinations.
If you do not give youth a chance due to injuries or retirements you end up with what?
Players like England have put out year after year regardless of how poor the results have been.
Should Australia have talked Matt Cooper, Jamie Lyon and Gasnier out of Test Retirement?
Aged 32, 29 and 30?
Time moves on and if youth is not given a chance you end up with the sort of teams England has put out for a decade where its harder to get out than any chance of getting in.
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| Quote ="Jonesy"[i"I’ve watched the Kangaroos play since ’84 and from 2 to 5 that’s among the worst backlines I can remember"[/i
You did say that but I picked up the generalisation its one of the worst backlines you have seen in 20 years.
'"
There was no generalisation, I said from positions 2 to 5. I really don’t know how I could have made it any clearer that I wasn’t talking about positions 1, 6 & 7
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| Quote ="Dunbar"There was no generalisation, I said from positions 2 to 5. I really don’t know how I could have made it any clearer that I wasn’t talking about positions 1, 6 & 7'"
Well Dunbar, you should have said its the worst Wing and Centres I have ever seen.
A backline in Australia is all players from the Half back to the Fullback.
A backline can not be broken up into 4 players and exclude the Halves and the Fullback.
Do you say that the Lock, Hooker and one Prop is poor and then say its the worst pack you have ever seen?
By the way if it is one of the worst backlines you have seen I do not think much of your opinion.
Any of the players you mention would be a certainty in the English Squad so how tough is England doing it regardless of the borrowed players?
Australia's rubbish is still better than what England can put out?
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| Quote ="Jonesy"Well Dunbar, you should have said its the worst Wing and Centres I have ever seen.
A backline in Australia is all players from the Half back to the Fullback.
A backline can not be broken up into 4 players and exclude the Halves and the Fullback.
Do you say that the Lock, Hooker and one Prop is poor and then say its the worst pack you have ever seen?
By the way if it is one of the worst backlines you have seen I do not think much of your opinion.
Any of the players you mention would be a certainty in the English Squad so how tough is England doing it regardless of the borrowed players?
Australia's rubbish is still better than what England can put out?'"
Oh for goodness sake, if you can’t work out positions 2 to 5 are centres and wingers then why do I have to spell it out for you... I am not taking the blame for your ignorance
And why bring England into this conversation – I have said that in my opinion it is one of the weakest Australian backlines from 2 to 5 (that’s the wingers and centres by the way) that I have seen – I made no reference whatsoever to the relative strengths of the other nations
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| Quote ="Dunbar"Oh for goodness sake, if you can’t work out positions 2 to 5 are centres and wingers then why do I have to spell it out for you... I am not taking the blame for your ignorance
And why bring England into this conversation – I have said that in my opinion it is one of the weakest Australian backlines from 2 to 5 (that’s the wingers and centres by the way) that I have seen – I made no reference whatsoever to the relative strengths of the other nations'"
The thread title is England Squad Assessment, I was trying to get back on topic.
You may well know more about the game than I do.
I have followed this game for nearly 40 years and had a close association with several of the NRL Clubs for many years both as a supporter and as a representative of a major sponsor.
Still each to their own opinions.
Its going to be a good couple of months Dunbar.
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| Quote ="Jonesy"The thread title is England Squad Assessment, I was trying to get back on topic.
You may well know more about the game than I do.
I have followed this game for nearly 40 years and had a close association with several of the NRL Clubs for many years both as a supporter and as a representative of a major sponsor.
Still each to their own opinions.
Its going to be a good couple of months Dunbar.'"
We can agree on that, it is going to be a great couple of months... I’m looking forward to some entertaining and competitive international Rugby League... I may be a sucker for punishment but this is the time of year I look forward to most, always with the hope that England will come out on top!
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| Quote ="Dunbar"We can agree on that, it is going to be a great couple of months... I’m looking forward to some entertaining and competitive international Rugby League... I may be a sucker for punishment but this is the time of year I look forward to most, always with the hope that England will come out on top!'"
With injuries, retirements and general unavailability across all the teams it should be the closest series in decades.
I hope refereeing does not come into it or "rub of the green"
May the best team win and if that team is England I have no problem with it and it would be the best thing to happen to the game in years.
But I want the team that wins to "WIN" it not the team that they play to lose it.
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| Quote ="Dunbar"Who would you rather see on the team sheet against England, Boyd and Uate or Israel Folau and Wendell Sailor?'"
Don't remember Sailor and Falou playing in the same Aussie team.
In 1997 the 3/4 was Nags, ET, Girdler, Sailor. The 2000 WC final Aussie 3/4 line was Matt Rogers, McDougal, Matt Gidley and Del Sailor. I'd say with Inglis this Aussie backline is stronger. In 2003 the Aussie 3/4 line was Rooney (shame he left RL he would have become a legend) Lewis Berrigan(?) Minichello, again this Aussie back line is better. In 2006 it was Tate, Gasnier, Lyon, Inglis I think both are pretty even. This Aussie bacline my lack some of the household names from previous years but its just as dangerous and man for man quite a few levels above Englands.
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| Quote ="Dunbar"Stronger than the 2009 4 Nations backline vs. England?
2. Brett Morris
3. Greg Inglis
4. Justin Hodges
5. Jarryd Hayne
I'd rather take on the 2011 team than this backline'"
Hodges (for Tonga) is the only player I'd take over this years Aussie backline. You could make a case for Hayne over Boyd, but Boyd has been one of the best players in the NRL in the last couple of years, Hayne has been 5hit this season.
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| Quote ="Charlie Sheen"Don't remember Sailor and Falou playing in the same Aussie team.
In 1997 the 3/4 was Nags, ET, Girdler, Sailor. The 2000 WC final Aussie 3/4 line was Matt Rogers, McDougal, Matt Gidley and Del Sailor. I'd say with Inglis this Aussie backline is stronger. In 2003 the Aussie 3/4 line was Rooney (shame he left RL he would have become a legend) Lewis Berrigan(?) Minichello, again this Aussie back line is better. In 2006 it was Tate, Gasnier, Lyon, Inglis I think both are pretty even. This Aussie bacline my lack some of the household names from previous years but its just as dangerous and man for man quite a few levels above Englands.'"
The one that stands out for me is the 2006 backline – probably the best of recent times
With its production line of talent, we will never see a weak Aussie backline. Maybe I’m just getting nostalgic as I get on a bit but this year’s team (bar Inglis) doesn’t have the same awe to it as when we saw names like Miles, Menninga and Kenny in the centres or the likes of Grothe on the wing
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| Quote ="Saddened!"I wouldn't have argued with any of the Huddersfield backs being selected, they are all very good.
McIllorum, Ablett and Bailey are my real eyebrow raising selections. I don't see what any of them would contribute in a positive sense.'"
Ablett is a cracking player and massively under rated by a lot. He has good hands good footwork and runs some good lines, he also has some pace for a back row forward and offers versatility as can cover SR, LF and centre, he is also in form. The others you mention could be debated, but for me ablett for me should be in the squad
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