l would have thought the surgeon would be glad of the work

Are there any confirmed injuries to the sternum of the player making the shoulder charge? Most of the injuries I've seen from shoulder charges are either shoulder injuries to the player making the charge or head injuries to the ball carrier when it's done wrong.


I'd agree, I just don't think (when done correctly and carefully ie below the head) that it's significantly more dangerous than a very strong regular tackle.
The hit put in by SBW on Marcus Bai in the WCC is a good example of when it's done badly and should be penalised.
The hit by Morley on Jason King (I think it's Jason King IIRC) is a good example of it being done properly.

[url=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066672/Jason King[/url? Surely too old to be playing on the same pitch as Mozza?

Still no evidence to support that Phipps, So no it shouldn't.

No they havn't.

You are of course right again Jonny.

Silly of me to think that a 100 kilo bloke running at speed and then smashing his shoulder into someones sternum might cause them serious injury.

Next these crazy surgeons will be telling us that smoking can cause lung cancer and eating foods with a high level of saturated fat can cause the arteries to clog up leading to coronary heart disease.



I wonder what their take is on your theory that all international teams should play in red and white?

Cheers. My signature needed updating.

I'm glad i'm about 48th in the long list of people disagreeing with you.

Thank you for agreeing with me that shoulder charges can (and do) cause a lot of injuries, not just to the person who is being hit, but also to the person running in and carrying out this highly irresponsible act.

RU have definately got it right by banning it from the 15 man code and fingers crossed RL will do the same.

so does all tackling.

I would expect that most players have been injured at some point in their career by a standard run of the mill tackle.

Bang on, i'd say more injuries happen by players falling awkwardly under the weight of other players tackles than anything else.

No I didn't. I agreed that shoulder charges can cause injuries. As Jonny & Smokey (There's a crime fighting duo surely!

) have both pointed out so can "regular" tackling. I once saw Sean Long fall over a divot in the pitch and injure his ankle. Should we ban the game from being played on grass?

I asked for instances where players attempting a shoulder charge had injured themselves in the manner you described since I honestly can't think of any. I'm sure there will be some but is it enough to justify banning a popular technique.

I would agree with Dico's point where it can be very dangerous if it's done carelessly and the ball carriers' head is impacted. But that can be penalised as all other high tackles are just perhaps dealt with more harshly due to the nature of the tackle.


No they haven't. Every single one of my Union friends would love to see shoulder charges in Union, so would the committee at my local Union club.

[url=http://img5.imageshack.us/i/kingbr.jpg/[/url

A shave of the head later...

[url=http://img33.imageshack.us/i/glennhall.jpg/[/url

With all due respect 'him, ' 'jonnythetraindriver' and 'SmokeyTA' I will go with the opinions of a fully qualified surgeon plus my own medical knowledge rather than the ill informed ramblings of 3 blokes on an internet forum, one of whom thinks all international RL sides should play in red and white shirts.






Lets hope this reckless act (which isn't even a tackle) is banned from our sport in the same way the Rugby football Union did.


That is all.

Ah so you have no further evidence. I see. So when you made reference to sternum injuries you had nothing to back it up with? Surely this fully qualified surgeon will have statistics to back up this claim, why can't you use those? By the way, I would sincerely hope this surgeon is fully qualified. I'm not sure I like the idea of a part-qualified surgeon. I'm part-qualified in brain surgery doncha know.

It's a reckless act when done in a reckless fashion. Just like many regular tackles. Just like the pressure put on players and the twisting in a tackle which leads to far more injuries (in my view) than legitimate shoulder charges.

Since when was I a train driver? Wish I was, i'd be minted.

So you've chosen to agreen with the opinions of a surgeon who hasn't published any evidence?

Indeed it is.

And as we all have agreed it's very easy to get the 'shoulder charge' wrong.

Given the target area (the sternum) it's sadly very easy to get it wrong and end up smashing the other players jaw, knocking their teeth out, fracturing their skull or even damaging their spine through mistiming it.

Also I think we can agree that the sternum (and the rib cage in general) is responsible for protecting many organs and major arteries. You start smashing it about with a 100 kg plus bloke and the consequences could be dire.


Yes accidents do happen and as Rugby League is a full contact sport sadly they do happen ...wherever you tackle someone.

The risks can hopefully be made less by banning the shoulder charge as RU have done.

I'm sure i've heard you say all of that before.

I strongly suggest you get someone to explain it to you as you don't seem to have grasped it.


I don't have a problem with 3 men in the tackle.

But shoulder charges are dangerous and should (and hopefully will) be banned from our sport. Sooner rather than later.



You concentrate on your campaign to get all international sides to wear red and white jerseys and leave the more technical stuff to people that know what they are on about.

Now if you will excuse me Jonny I have a Huddersfield v Wigan fixture to watch. I'm looking forward to this one. Lets hope the shoulder charges are kept to a minimum.

I understand it boy, I read what people write, unlike you did on the other thread. I'm suprised you didn't finish that post with something along the lines of.....

'The risks can hopefully be made less by banning the shoulder charge as RU have done'
'One area of the game where Union has got it right.'
'RU have got it right'
'RU have definately got it right by banning it from the 15 man code and fingers crossed RL will do the same.'

Yadda Yadda Yadda. Change the record.

It's easy if players are allowed to be reckless. If they are penalised for "reckless" shoulder charges they will think more and be more careful.


As it is with a regular tackle. Paul Deacon was on the receiving end of a nasty facial injury a few years playing for GB. It wasn't a shoulder charge.


Obviously. Thanks for the Year 7 Biology class.


So we should ban regular tackles too then shouldn't we? It's still a 100kg bloke smashing into the rib cage. Often with a nice forearm for added effect.



Finally we get to the crux of the matter. Injuries will happen regardless. A shoulder charge is no more dangerous than a regular tackle. A reckless shoulder charge should be penalised and punished, as should a reckless, regular tackle.

I was at that game when Deacon got hit off the ball, Kidwell was it? Fractured his palet in his mouth. Ouch.

its a tough one with the 3rd man coming in, sometimes it can be done maliciously and in an unsporting manner.
Dont know how that can be policed.

The shoulder charge is great to lift the atmosphere etc..
but some of them in the past I always thought should be penalised,
bailey on faz, morley on various people etc..

Everyone tackle even without a shoulder charge is aiming for this area, that is where your taught to hit from a kid.

Injuries are part and parcel of Rugby league and can happen anytime every player knows this and still plays, take my injuries own i broke my hand and wrist grabbing someones collar and getting my hand stuck in the collar as they fell.

So let's rule out that then, i have seen someone snap there hamstring when taking a kick, let's rule that out.

Phil bailey in the semi a few years hurt is leg running in let's rule that out.

You see my point the shoulder charge is part of rugby league, there are no more injuries from shoulder charges than they are from any other aspect of rugby league.

We have all agreed that injuries can indeed come from anywhere.

We need to reduce the risk of serious injuries wherever possible whilst still maintaining RL as a contact sport.

Therefore I would have no problem at all with the shoulder charge being banned.


RU works well without it and it wont be missed in RL.



ps thanks for the signature material Jonny. Glad to see you are finally seeing sense.

There is a simple solution to this argument.

If you don't want to get hurt playing sport don't play RL,simple really.

If only it [uwas[/u that simple CJ