Will there be massive changes against Australia you think?

Roby's first spell was poor, but when he returned he was awesome. Maybe we should play him off the bench next time. Also two props on the bench and Sam to full back with Brown and Robinson at the halves. This would mean possibly playing Lunt at starting hooker.

Im loving all the talk about the ref, but there isnt as much about the poor completion rate.

I thought we were hard done to on a few occasions with the officials but overall we still wasn't good enough. Defending for the third try straight after half time was embarrassing for Championship standard nevermind international standard.

We looked far more lively in the second half when Tomkins went to full back and we actually started to support the man with the ball. Shenton, Graham, Westwood and Robinson our best players for me, with Widdop, Brown and Griffin being our worst IMO.

We have done it this season but thats playing teams a lot poorer, we (England) are very much the underdogs in these matches. Just because our defensive line was poop doesnt excuse the refs for letting them get the ball over the line by breaking the rules does it?

Like i have said we were poor but that doesnt excuse the refs for giving them points they havent won fair and square does it?

Drop Atkins, Brown, Griffin, Roby off the bench would be better, but then who starts at 9?! Should have taken an organisational player, we lacked direction throughout the game really. And Gleeson should be there.

First half completion rate was a shocker.................nay suicidal.

Fine your right, point proven. Now focus on soemthing else, completion rate for starters. Or is that the refs fault too????

Poor foundation laid in first half, good signs with Tomkins at FB and snaps of how dangerous our offload can be. J Tomkins to centre, Crabtree in the 17. Think we need someone to liven it up in the front row for 10 min spells, can Carvell do that?

Fecking hell, change the record. Fact is England were poor and so were the officials. If people want to moan about the ref then fair enough.

Roby always seems to play best off the bench when the oppo are getting tired. Need a hooker who can do all the simple stuff and guide us round early doors...

changing topic quickly, how do i get a quote box up when writing a reply?

We all knew we were weak in the backs and so it proved. They looked totally outclassed every time the Kiwi's moved the ball wide at speed.

However, for me the biggest worry was how ineffective our much vaunted back row was. Ellis was average, O'Loughlin only slightly better and Burgess had possibly his worst ever game in an international shirt. None of them had any real impact on the game.

Nope. Like i have said we were poor and didnt deserve to win. Everything we touched 1st half turned to . Like Graham said if you give teams like that a start they will kill you.

Me change the record

Fact is England were poor and if I want to moan about what England actually did wrong rather than just whinging about the ref then fair enough.

By clicking on the quote button at the bottom of the post you want to quote. - simples

Whoever they pick,they need to come up with something special against Australia.I just hope Australia don't put 50 on them.

Graham, Tomkins and Roby stand out players for me in the second half. Widdrop, Brown and Griffin don't look international standard to me.

Its a pity Eastmond is injured, him and Tomkins would be a dangerous combination which we lacked today in the halves.

Thought Ellis played quite well, Burgess was very quiet though. Pack isn't the problem though, it's the backs were we struggle so much.

He can if his Mrs lets him and he doesn't get an injury picking a pint up.

Don't think NZ did anything too special as a team even though Benji shone, but were still well above the level we played at. Robinson & Westwood stood out for me. Griffin, Brown & Atkins are not good enough at international level. S Tomkins was more involved at FB but we desperately need him at SO. We need to bulk up in the back line because we were far too soft. 2nd half Shenton improved. Brown's no try was rightly scrubbed off, you can't layyour hands on but agree some of the other decisions against us were poor. Would like to see this 13 start next week....

1 Widdop
2 Goulding
3 Shenton
4 Ellis
5 Briscoe
6 S Tomkins
7 Robinson
8 Burgess
9 Roby
10 Graham
11 J Tomkins
12 Westwood
13 Lockers

Don't have a clue about subs though.........

Drop Joel Tomkins. At least the three people you mention there tried to actually do something in the game, albeit not right well. At least they were involved.