I have not yet read the thread but to me it was the same old. Worst Oz team in over 50 years only had to play for about 15 minutes to beat us. They beat us in the way I predicted - held onto the ball, used their quicker, more creative men and launched GI a few times. The fact that they managed to win by this route despite not getting it together and being frankly poor for most of the match speaks volumes for our lack of ability on the pitch and in coaching. We need to rip up the Yorkshire coaching manual of sending a few big guys up the middle. We need more James Graham and less Burgess boys. Joel Tomkins does nothing for me, Liam Farrell for me is too light-weight and niggly and Sam Tomkins is too physically lightweight at this level, although did play reasonably well today (especially with Ryan Hall taking his high balls for him early on). Clark gave us some go forward but his two errors in passing in attack, especially the one before half-time, arguably cost us the match. As to the last minute decision - maybe under current interpretations it could be a try but at first sight didn't look it and in times gone by would never have been given. What should be investigated and perhaps overturned is the decision that it was no try because it was bouncing up when Hall touché it. That was manifestly incorrect and if the video ref did say that (the actual ref did) then the England management should not just lie down they should object and keep objecting throughout the rest of the tournament. This Australian refs are best nonsense needs knocking on the head once and for all if we are ever to have a credible international game.

Australia were poor. GI dropped the ball several times. They had no go forward. But they won. That's all you need to know.

so close yet again!

how many times have we seen those tries given?! was a try for me.

shame we dropped off in the second half to let them back in it



going to be hard to get into the final now, need to beat NZ by more than 10?

England had no field position second half, primarily because every time Australia were pinned in their own half Sutton managed to find a dubious penalty to get them out of trouble.

Consciously or otherwise, that refereeing performance was corrupt.

Agree 100%, there was something not right about that performance from the officials today. They ignored so many 2nd attempts and flops by the aussies and countless late shots on the English kickers and yet managed to pull us 5 times for very dubious offences in the 2nd half and at key times too.

Never felt so genuinely cheated as I do after that showing today. Questions MUST be asked!

People say we have the best pack in the competition but the reality is we are over-reliant on one man - James Graham. He takes the ball up, tackles and now seems to be doing the running and ball handling you would normally expect from the back three. I think for all the size of the front row the pack let us down (with the exception of Graham) today.

Chris Hill had a very strong game and I thought G.Burgess did well today too. Our back row was weak for the 2nd game in a row. They tackle well but offered little going forward.

I'd agree that Hill did well - I overlooked him as he wasn't in the starting 13.

There are better props in SL than Tom Burgess (or Mike Cooper for that matter), if I was a young SL prop I'd be thinking I had to go to the NRL or risk being overlooked.

England should have had enough to win today, and IMO theres as much of a mental obstacle to get over as there is beating them on the pitch. It's like the players don't believe they can beat the Aussies. I know McNamara is an easy scape goat but some of the responsibility has to lie with him. It's not just about selecting 17 players, he needs to make sure his tactics are spot on and his players are motivated, he's found wanting on both counts IMO. He should have gone after the 2011 4 nations and definitely after the WC. Those 17 players with better coaching win that game today regardless of the ref/VR IMO.

Rather like the England football team we struggle to create / finish chances on the back of the build up play. There was some encouragement today - largely via Smith - but more or less the only ploy is get it wide right with ST coming into the line with a few dummy runners. Whilst it works now and again we need something a bit more varied.

Hmmmm, interesting comment and it could work either way

2 years off will give both teams time to grow stronger........ But who will grow stronger?
I do feel that we have the bones of a great and young England team, a team that is going to get better, for me its all about getting our better players playing in the NRL, its no coincidence that we are playing our best rugby when half of the team are paying in the NRL

lets hope we can have some sort of international action next year for England

100% Agree with the bit in bold, I do believe that we will get there though,

The top bit on better players? who are you thinking?

Very surprised cooper has not played too, I've watched him play every week in the NRL and he has being excellent

I know a lot of you will laugh me off the board but there's a British 2nd row out there that I believe would have caused absolute mayhem out there today and he'd certainly have sorted out the lack of offloading from the pack. I'm pretty sure I don't need to name him as he's had his own thread on here not too long ago! I agree with most that our 2nd row options aren't great, I think Whitehead definitely needs to come into the reckoning for the NZ game as I've been impressed every time I've seen him this season. Plusses today were Graham, Hall (superb player) and I was pleasantly surprised with Sarginson as I really thought he'd struggle but he outshine Watkins for me. I still hold out hope for next week but we've got to be flawless to beat the Kiwis by 10. Anything less and we're done for.

I think Alex Walmsley has been unlucky, Huby too. Scott Taylor wouldn't have been far off if the rumours of a move to Hull didn't ruin his form. I'm not necessarily unhappy that a particular player has been picked over another, it just seems you're guaranteed selection if you're playing in the NRL. Players like Walmsley, Crosby, Amor as examples, if they have any international aspirations, must be thinking they might have to move to the NRL for it to happen. Tom Burgess has had some very good games for South Sydney and some ordinary ones, but he's been fast tracked into the England set up because of his name and the fact he plays in Australia.

I agree that Chris Hill played well. It's just a pity he doesn't have Graham's ball handling ability because we sure miss it when he's off the pitch.

Very much agree on Amore, certainly as a Wakey fan I know his capabilities, I think he will play for England though, he's got the raw boned toughness we need at international level

Can't agree with you on Tom though, I've watched every rabbits game this season, the twins have both being exceptional, I dont think any rabbits fans would use the word ordinary either, today we nearly beat the Aussies, without the Burgess bros go forward we wouldn't have being as close today

If they want to become better players then i firmly believe they do need to go to the NRL

good post pal

who?

I'm almost turned off from watching the kiwi game, refereeing was so one sided at the ruck it was sickening to watch. The late contacts/holding back by the would be tackler on the kicker was let fly and they gained huge amounts from that aspect alone. No point talking about the Hall try, it was and the evidence was clear. Corruption, plain and simple and if the RFIL don't have this investigated there's little point in having international rugby tournaments.

We had some great displays, I bagged S.Tomkins first game, he had an excellent game and was 100% improved. Graham, Hill, Hall were immense. Smith I thought did pretty well, most of his kicks were fine, maybe too far on the bombs not giving our chasers enough time, it's clear that he lacks the skills of an international class attacking 7 mind.
Widdop was okay, nothing amazing just solid, he's decent in defence though. Watkins whilst good at times is defensively niave, does he just switch off mentally? Sarginson had a good game with a lovely touch for our first try.
Clarke again shows his prowess in attack but he's also shown to make critcal errors in judgement a few times, that said Hodgson is 2nd best atm, he's made a few defensive errors but who else we going to play?
that said we have some players clearly not up to this level.
Joel Tompkins, Ferres, Charnley were poor by any standard, SoL whilst a very good player was anonymous and was a poor mans Westerman who showed more effectiveness in 2 stints over 40 minutes in the first game than SoL did all match.


Whitehead & Westerman need bringing back in, not sure about Burgess but he can't be any worse than Charnley

I'll give you a clue... he viciously assaulted a match official last season!icon_wink.gif

I don't dissagree but we would need someone he absolutely respects to shadow him in everything he does and act as a steadying influence on him thereby ensuring he's at his best, someone like Paul Sculthorpe.

The same can be said of Danny Brough whose ability to break the line and his speed would be a threat to both Australia and NZ. His kicking game would be the best in the Tournement and his raw attitude, Beleif and sheer will to win would be an asset.

Would Ryan Atkins have been more of a threat than Sarginson!
It's a long time since his nightmare game (he wasn't on his own) and he's matured into a much better all round player.

I name these three players in particular because they're unavailable due to personality clashes with the head coach.

I'm with you lol
Hocks an exceptional player, the sort we really needed this morning on the edges, I'd love to see him in the side but I think him getting kicked out of camp last year likely ended his international career

Hock hasn't been an exceptional player for almost 3 years. He's got tremendous ability but but he can't be relied upon on or off the field, and just how often has he ever performed well in a big game for club or country? At 31 years old I think it's time to move on.

I do wonder what has happend between Macnamara and Brough for him to be overlooked , he's the best SH in the SL for all the reasons you highlighted, he would never be scared of getting in the face of the Aussies either, I'm not sure what Brough has to do to get a game TBH

I think Atkins needs another chance at international level also

Why would you want to replace Sarginson on today's performance? Or are you thinking of dropping Calumnous Watkins to make way for Atkins?

Fair point on exceptional player to exceptional abllity and there is no doubt that he can not be relied on but many Wigan fans would disagree with his big game performances and he defo has played well for England

I though Sargison went well today and he's had a great season, he defo deserves his place in the team

Watkins looks excellent for Leeds, I think we have some one that could potentially play in the NRL if he keeps developing. He just seems to look a too nervous in internationals, time and experience will sort that I have no doubt

Ideally I'd have Jack Reed (when he back from injury) and Atkins
I do think its time to try Atkins again now