Re the first point, it's not about reserve team players having options in terms of finding a club to move on to and play in their first team. It's more that academy team players (restricted by age) don't all reach their full potential by the time they become ineligible to play for said academy team. This means that they may not be able to find a club who will take them on to continue their development. A reserve team has no such restrictions.

Around 5,000 for Fax crowds in SL sounds about right, but we never had any real success to build on that. The close proximity of clubs in West Yorkshire does mean that winning teams will attract the spectators.

London and Toulouse aren't really attractive home fixtures for Fax. You're right about Toronto though for this season, as a) it's a new club, and b) they'll be one of the two teams that everyone wants to beat. Leigh and Fev will be the other "attractive" home games for Fax. The Toulouse game could potentially have some interest, but that would depend on league positions at the time (it's the second to last game of the season).

If an away side bring 250 (at best) to a game at the Shay, and if those away fans all pay top dollar for tickets £20, then that's £5,000 in ticket revenue........now let's say that Halifax have 14 home games over the course of the season, so that's £70,000 all in, for away fan ticket revenue. Now, let's say that each away fan buys 2 Pints and a pie.....let's call that a round tenner, so £105,000 in income from away fans all season. Now, let us say that Halifax average 1,500 HOME fans a game, drinking 2 pints and eating a pie for a total cost of £25 a pop, because a ST is cheaper than an away day ticket.....1,500 fans x £25 is £37,500 a game and £525,000 all season.
£525,000 (Home fans) and £105,000 (Away fans) is £630,000.......

Now....lets replace one of those nice local sides and their 250 fans with a big bad nasty French outfit with no fans at all.......what is the impact on the £630,000 of match day income from fans expressed as a percentage? £7,500 in revenue GONE...or just over 1%.......SKY TV give you more than that a season for the right not to show your matches.

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Which, roughly translated, means that, "we'll wait and see if Toronto and/or Toulouse are anywhere.near good enough, before making a decision".
Anyone who thinks the expansion is just about increasing SL numbers is badly mistaken, the top flight will only be increased to accommodate Toronto, Toulouse and possibly London.
The only side issue is whether the game sticks with promotion and relegation and whether there is any kind of return to franchising/ licensing.

What a way to run a business. Absolute farce.

I agree and I also don't agree.

Not making the decision well in advance is a poor effort, however, it won't really make any difference, it is possible that a team "might" get relegated so you have to play to escape the million pound game scenario really. So in essense what difference does it make, only maybe to contracts if there is "actually" no relegation this year?

How are clubs supposed to plan ahead? If there is no relegation, then clubs may choose to invest in facilities, give younger players a chance, sign players to longer contracts etc. As it is, the teams likely to be at the bottom end must focus only on the short term.

Correct. It's a terrible way to run a business. Appalling.

It's a tough question but the only two options really in terms of sport is promotion and relegation (like Football have, one up one down so everyone knows the score. You finish last you're down. None of this Middle 8's rubbish). Or go a closed shop with proper franchising. Like the NRL/NFL and even some of the Twenty20 Cricket Leagues.

Problem is. You'll get people moaning about relegation as clubs can't plan for the future or livelihoods are at stake (if you perform consistently poor in your job would it be the same as the employees as a relegated club in terms of job loss?) or in terms of a 'closed shop' those that miss out will inevitably complain about not having a chance! There are some teams out there who have no potential, will not ever be an SL team and would complain that their team couldn't get into SL.

Stinks a bit of ‘let’s see who is heading for the middle 8s and then make the decision’. The suspicion being that there’ll be more impetus to do away with relegation if one or two of the wealthier and more powerful clubs are struggling mid-season.

If they’ve run out of time and don’t want rush it, keep things as they are and plan for 2020 ahead of 2019. That’d be transparent, reasonable and fair.

Agreed, what I'm saying is that it's unacceptable not to have it set out before the season starts, as it absolutely will impact decisions taken by teams towards the bottom of the table. FWIW, I'd advocate a hybrid structure, where some teams are protected if their off field performance warrants it (hitting criteria in terms of crowds, profit, running an academy etc), but there is still a route into SL via on field success.

I've been giving this more thought and have come up with a marketing slogan for the unprotected SL teams:

[iThere to fall when others fail[/i

That'll help them enter a upward cycle of self-improvement, I'm sure. Who wouldn't want to see their team subjected to that kind of indignity, after all?

Crowds, profit and a successful academy are their own rewards for goodness sake!

Tbf, if you're on a wind-up, it's quite a good one.



More realistically, you could achieve the same aim by having a re-election system like the Football League used to.

It seems very clear that, if there is no criteria set well in advance, "we" have to be playing the "wait and see" game and if none of the expansion clubs are doing sufficiently well ie, competing at the top end of the Championship, the decision to expand SL will de deferred for another 12 months.
As stated previously, there is no way that the plan to increase SL to 14 clubs, is for any other reason than to include Toronto + 1.
It's not as though Sky have offered a whole extra wedge of cash to facilitate the change (ie to give them some additional TV games), in fact the opposite is true and the current Sky monies will need to be spread across more clubs and I dont see too many of the SL CEO's voting for reduced TV income ??

Its simple then keep it as it is until the sky contract finishes no need to change anything million pound game as normal if that means leigh replace the Vikings or Catalans then so be it

Ah. Missed the point of your previous post haha! Yes I agree. Clubs needs to know before pre-season starts the structure of the leagues etc. Tbh I am getting sick of all the tinkering. Go back to one down, one up or franchising. Top 6/8 playoffs and just leave it at that!

Not a bad idea the hybrid structure. It will at least encourage clubs to better themselves in areas such as youth development. How clubs are allowed to run without academies is beyond me and I am also so pleased that clubs are reintroducing the reserves. Shout out to the likes of Keighley and Halifax who have always had one. But SL clubs should have a mandatory one. And pleasing to see after the Bulls and Fev paved the way we now have a Women's Super League!

The only problem with a hybrid system is those in areas which will never get the crowds or decent youth. When you have say three clubs in very very close areas it's always going to be hard for them to build a good fan base. Furthermore those in areas not in an RL hotbed will suffer as they don't get the crowds. However they are at least creating a small interest in those areas especially at a grassroots level.

And I thought now the clubs are looking after themselves it would be better how wrong was I

My genuine view I'm afraid! I just don't think we can afford to have the situation where Catalans, for example, can go down on the back of a bad year, as nearly happened in 2017. We aren't strong enough to take risks like that. At the same time, we need to reward good on field performance by allowing a route into SL purely by winning games as you guys have done.

I'm not familiar with the re-election system, how would it work? Widnes finish bottom and the clubs vote whether to keep them or promote Hull KR?

Clubs are allowed to market themselves and recruit talent from beyond their own postcode.

Agree with you here. And I have no idea of the re-election system but I hope it doesn't work like that. The SL chairman will just vote who they want in (their mates) and opens up a possibility of bribery etc. For that sort of system to work at all we need a strong, transparent governing body which unfortunately we do not have.

That didn't stop leeds from advertising in Tong, Bradford a couple of years ago

For example, yes.




Because there's no risk of chicanery in using 'independently assessed criteria' to divide SL clubs into first- and second-class citizens? They're not going to be deeply trusted after last time. Also the unprotected teams won't accept it - because it is degrading and that. There's a reason the Washington Generals didn't have many fans.

If we have a route into SL achievable by on-field performances, then there obviously has to be another team going the other way (unless the numbers in SL do change that season). I'm confused why that shouldn't be Catalans (or indeed any other SL team) if their on-field performances that season puts them in the relegation spot?

If Leeds or any other club wants to advertise in an area where they think there is a market, all power to them. The Rhinos should be advertising all across the Leeds commuter belt (and that stretches a bloody long way) where they feel there is an untapped market.

I don't understand why, when people see another club promoting themselves outside their typical catchement area, the reaction is "it's outrageous that they're trying to 'poach' fans from another club" rather than "why isn't my club being proactive like that?"

The idea that clubs should be "staying out of each other's way" smacks of a desire to protect those that aren't going out there and finding supporters for themselves.

I seem to remember quite a few years back Warrington and St Helens promoted the game outside the heartlands by way of South wales and Scotland, correct me if I,m wrong but didn't the 2 clubs go into the schools around Glasgow only for the RFL to set up the big game in Edinburgh.

That's a new story for me!

I seem to remember Huddersfield and Halifax fans getting in a tizz about Bradford Bulls billboards in their area during the Bradford glory years, and the usual suspects have kicked up a stink on here occasionally about Leeds ads popping up on the outskirts of Wakefield.

Think it was around 2002, Glasgow City Council were interested in the game at Junior Level and put money into the venture, Warrington and St Helens sent some of there high profile players there to promote the game through the schools. As already mentioned, the RFL instead of playing the big game at Glasgow opted to go away from the promoted area and play at Murrayfield, Edinburgh instead , they also stopped some of the funding they had with Glasgow City Council.