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| here we go again...
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| Quote ="Wellsy13"ANOTHER thread about this?!
My thoughts? You want to scrap it because the opposition will get worse, yet we haven't beaten them in a series yet. Where's the logic in that? Surely until it's not living up to its intentions (which you've stated as being to give England a game), then it should be scrapped? But we haven't beaten them in a series, so it's not a valid reason.
Why would War of the Roses achieve more?'"
The op is saying the quality in overseas players will decrease so lets plan in advance.
How can we get get fans behind when clubs treat the games so poorly.
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| Quote ="Sheldon"How can we get get fans behind when clubs treat the games so poorly.'"
How can the clubs get behind this sport when the fans treat the games so poorly?
We talk about wanting international RL, but as fans we hardly back it. Whether "real" internationals or an Exiles game, attendances rank poorly compared to the club games.
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| Quote ="Richie"How can the clubs get behind this sport when the fans treat the games so poorly?
We talk about wanting international RL, but as fans we hardly back it. Whether "real" internationals or an Exiles game, attendances rank poorly compared to the club games.'"
Because it's not competitive?
I grew up with wembley selling out.
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| Quote I grew up with wembley selling out.'"
Really?
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| Quote ="east stander"Really?'"
Well nearly
I'm not sure of the official attendances but I can remember the stadium been full.
Early to mid 90's.
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| Quote ="Sheldon"Because it's not competitive?
I grew up with wembley selling out.'"
Why do you think it's not competitive? Our 3-0 series win over NZ a few years back means our fans think we'll walk over them every time?
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| Until England start beating the Exiles on a regular basis by 30/40 points then the matches should continue, but just one match, and the pricing should be realistic and consistent, no last minute panic offers
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| Quote ="Saddened!"The Exiles concept and the Roses concept are both intended to increase the ability of the national team to compete with Australia and New Zealand. Given the enormous gulf in quality between the two competitions and between the grass roots inputs in each country (The quality athletes in the UK are highly unlikely to choose league whereas they do in Aus/NZ) is there any point continuing with this aim?
Super League will never rival the NRL for the reasons I put above. So is there any point in having internationals? Does the sport really need them? Does it currently benefit from it's farcical international scene? The forthcoming World Cup has NO hype about it at all and will be another expensive embarassment.
Why not just scrap internationals altogether? Lets think outside the box for once and do something different. Representative rugby doesn't have to be based on nationality.'"
Agree with most of that. Exiles is a well meaning but hopeless concept. The benefit of giving the England team a couple of games is negligible against the real task of raising the standards of our players, which can only be tackled directly, and is best done by making the most of the game's strength - the club game ( true both in the NRL and here ) . The only hope (and its a slim one) for our standards is that the NRL see fit to get involved in some form of expanded WCC, which needs to involve games spread through the season ( this can still be acheived with only one overseas trip, on which you play your two overseas away group fixtures). Those regular big equivalents to soccer's 'European Nights' are what will drive standards forward consistently. far more than a brief jamboree tournament at the end of the season. Eventually, if and when we're good enough, Australia might then start to show more interest in tours, etc.
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| ...and by the way, on the subject of standards...it never ceases to amaze how many people think that lowering the cap will raise standards. The same conspiracy theorists who castigate clubs like Wigan and Warrington for so-called breaking the cap, also take great delight in pointing out how both clubs would get stuffed in the NRL.
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| I don't think Yorkshire v Lancashire needs to be resurrected tbh. There is simply no time for it in the current schedule. It won't be particularly well supported and there will be grey areas regarding player's selections (can Cumbrians play for Lancs, do you class where you were born or where you play/made your debut for example).
The Exiles concept needs to be stuck with IMO, but as a one off game. The 2nd game this year was beyond pointless. I agree with what the OP says about the reduction in quality of the players available, but's that's just one of those things.
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| Let's include all non English players in the future.
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| Bring back Yorkshire v Lancashire but also include those from outside the two counties and the country by looking at which of the two counties the player made their debut in or which county the club they joined first was in.
In the short term the better foreigners would play and as more and more English players play in super league those foreigners would be edged out
It would give the better English players experience of joining a camp, being put together with unfamiliar players together and building team spirit and game plans quickly like they need to do for international series/tournaments and give more players than present the opportunity to play at a higher level (two teams rather than one), it should be made clear that a place in the main squad is on the line in the roses match.
The two coaches could also come together for England for the end of season series.
Although the impact would be less than actually fixing the league and playoff structure.
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| Yorks v Lancs was a big flop last time it was resurrected. RL fans have an incredible ability to remember the past in a ridiculously rose-tinted way. Btw Warringtons in Cheshire, St Helens in Merseyside, Salford in Greater Manchester. Not to mention the players coming through from Cumbria, the south east, the north east.
France are the future, the RFL needs to find a way of getting at least 1 French player in every SL side with a view to building their squad up to our level. In the meantime the exiles will do. Drop the word 'origin' though, it just encourages dumb comparisons with an infinitely better product down under.
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| Quote ="Tre Cool"Yorks v Lancs was a big flop last time it was resurrected. RL fans have an incredible ability to remember the past in a ridiculously rose-tinted way. Btw Warringtons in Cheshire, St Helens in Merseyside, Salford in Greater Manchester. Not to mention the players coming through from Cumbria, the south east, the north east.
France are the future, the RFL needs to find a way of getting at least 1 French player in every SL side with a view to building their squad up to our level. In the meantime the exiles will do. Drop the word 'origin' though, it just encourages dumb comparisons with an infinitely better product down under.'"
The top dozen juniors outside the Catalans squad to move to England, to train FT at SL clubs but be registered with Championship Clubs, funded jointly be the RFL and the French Federation
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| Quote ="Starbug"The top dozen juniors outside the Catalans squad to move to England, to train FT at SL clubs but be registered with Championship Clubs, funded jointly be the RFL and the French Federation'"
Wouldnt the same be achieved by admitting Toulouse to SL and having them field an academy side.
or simply having an FFR13 academy side competing in the academy league.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"Wouldnt the same be achieved by admitting Toulouse to SL and having them field an academy side.
or simply having an FFR13 academy side competing in the academy league.'"
Toulose in SL possibly, I dont think the academy league would provide an improvement on the French Elite competition or provide the FT enviroment to encourage the neccessary improvements in quality required
My idea could work as a precurser to a Toulouse entry to SL, if done for 2 years leading up to the 2015 licence period
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| Quote ="Starbug"Toulose in SL possibly, I dont think the academy league would provide an improvement on the French Elite competition or provide the FT enviroment to encourage the neccessary improvements in quality required
My idea could work as a precurser to a Toulouse entry to SL, if done for 2 years leading up to the 2015 licence period'"
Well the academy side would be for players not ready for FT or the Elite competition, like our academy players.
Why spread the players through league making them move to another country at a very young age? Why not just have Toulouse field an academy side from now until 2015 to build towards SL entry.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"
Why spread the players through league making them move to another country at a very young age? Why not just have Toulouse field an academy side from now until 2015 to build towards SL entry.'"
I'd have them living in groups, doubled up at SL clubs for training and on dual contracts with Championship clubs, no great hassle living a couple of hours from home if they were serious about a pro RL career
Its a workable worthwhile idea, but dissect it to death if you wish if it'll make you feel happy
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| england vs england knights is a terrible idea. fans will not know who to support, its basically a training ground match situation. I dont think we should have a 3 team origin series.
It should be:
3 games series mid way in the season for yorkshire v lancashire and it should get marketed to death and should be at big stadia. Meanwhile for the players that arent from yorkshire and lancashire - e.g Mccarthy scarsbrook. There should be a North vs south match which excludes yorkshire and lancashire players and is basically a mini version of the big 3 game origin series between yorkshire and lancashire. This is so it can develop the game further up north and down south so that our national game will get bigger.
England v exiles should be kept because its a good test for the english teams. The yorkshire v lancashire and the North v south match can then be viewed by the english head coach to help pick who should be in the team for the exiles and world cup/ 4 nations games. ALSO - FRENCH PLAYERS and any other foreign nationalities should be included in the exiles team because its an all stars team and england need as bigger test as possible. As well there may be a bit of a french, welsh, scotish or irish following if the exiles concept could grow, then at least they would be some cheering when exiles score.
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| Quote ="Starbug"I'd have them living in groups, doubled up at SL clubs for training and on dual contracts with Championship clubs, no great hassle living a couple of hours from home if they were serious about a pro RL career
Its a workable worthwhile idea, but dissect it to death if you wish if it'll make you feel happy'"
these are 16/17/18 year old kids. Why take them to a different country, with a different language to stick them in a youth academy?
All i did was ask you a question, one which you seem to be avoiding whilst getting quite strangely protective of your 'idea', Why move the to England to do it when they can do it in France.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"these are 16/17/18 year old kids. Why take them to a different country, with a different language to stick them in a youth academy?
All i did was ask you a question, one which you seem to be avoiding whilst getting quite strangely protective of your 'idea', Why move the to England to do it when they can do it in France.'"
Do what in France? Train with various SL coaches? Train with International players and the best juniors in England? , play in the Championship ( a stronger comp than
the French Elite ) ?
Moving out of your ' comfort zone ' can quite often improve performance , it worked for a certain Scottish tennis player
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| Quote ="Starbug"Do what in France? Train with various SL coaches? Train with International players and the best juniors in England? , play in the Championship ( a stronger comp than
the French Elite ) ?
'" These are academy players, not first team players. And yes, Toulouse can enter a side in SL academy to build towards there joining SL, they better ones who are physically ready can go on loan to the championship as they can now .
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| Drop the Knights tag for the purpose of this fixture and call it England v England, ala when you are playing FIFA with your mates. Okay we're not going to have clones of every player, but you get my drift.
Follow it with England v France in Perpignan, so long as France can draw their strongest side, which for a reason I never understand they never seem to do.
Exiles can also stay for mine, if it's a one-off.
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| Whatever side we end up playing mid-season I'd like us to start using those games to blood more youngsters in to the set up. The squad completely changes when the NRL contingent are added for the main comps so there isn't really an argument for continuity within the squad. I was just messing about earlier and put together a good, young English side.
Tomkins, 23
Charnley, 21
Watkins, 21
Arundel, 21
Briscoe, 22
Ratchford, 24
Lomax, 22
Mossop, 24
Clark, 19
Hill, 25
Farrell, 22
Bateman, 19
Westerman, 23
Taylor, 21
Patrick, 24
Whitehead, 23
McShane, 23
The only positions I really struggled with were the halves. I considered players like O'Brian, Myler, Smith and Sarginson but we really do struggle to produce top class halves in this country! That squad has an average age of just over 22 and would give the Exiles a decent game IMO. It would all be valuable experience as well.
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