Well I hope for your sake, you don't get for any crucial matches. He's clueless.

i do think that was the wrong decision, but sinfield bumped briscoe into touch pretty much straight away anyway

both sides got some decisions they shouldn't have but only one was good enough to take advantage of them. thats what it all boils down to

which ones went in hull favour?

you mean the three times hull players put there hand in the ptb off the floor and the ref gave a knock on.
or whiting permenantly offside.

theres no doubt we got some big decisions but don't think it was all one way

Fairly blinkered view if you really think those knock ons were penalty offences.

Not once did Leeds get pulled for off side. Stevo ended up commenting on this with about 15 mins left, something on the lines of leeds players being 4 yards off and the ref not blowing.

So, the "forward pass" wrongly given.
The pass off the floor which was incorrectly pinged.
The non sin binning of Ablett.
The Manu penalty for a nothing offence, when Maguire had been "lashing out" at the ptb on three earlier occasions.
The one sided offside penalties.

Robyn was the pure definition of a homer.

fairly blinkered view if you think they weren't penalty offences.
like i said we did get a lot but don't think hull got away with nothing because they didn't.

I'm not usually one for bagging refs, I spent enough time in the middle or running lines for that but:

There are some significant problems with the way the game's officials operate and that can be laid squarely at Stuart Cummings feet. We have publically available league tables and stats for teams and individual players but know nothing about the officials, other than the brief biographies of the RFL website.

We have full-time referees and it appears that further development is deemed unnecessary. After every game, the officials should be compelled to watch the video and then offer a self-appraisal, they should also watch the videos of their colleagues' games and appraise them similarly. Then once a week, they should meet to discuss their relative performances. This should assist in pinpointing areas that need to be worked on including: fitness, positioning, awareness of and relationship with their TJs and most importantly, general attitude and demeanor.

They are appraised on every game by each team and the RFL, there is absolutely no reason why the results of these appraisals cannot be made public, in a redacted form. Just their appraisal scores would be a start. If they have made indefensible decisions, they should then offer an explanation to the coaches of the clubs concerned and if necessary, a simple apology for cocking up. They are human, they will make mistakes, the problem has always been how they respond to those mistakes, assuming they do acknowledge that they have dropped a bollock in the first place.

On Friday night's match, there were a number of wrong calls, not all against Hull but they did seem to affect Hull more. Tim Roby seemed to lose concentration far too easily for my liking and when the TJ interjected for the Manu "push", he should've sent him back to the touchline with his flag stuck up his ar[is[/ie. But at the end of the day, Hull simply weren't good enough to beat what was a far from great Leeds team. That's why Hull lost and credit to Peter Gentle for openly admitting that fact and not trying to hide behind anything else.

There used to be a limited amount of interaction between Cummings and the public in his Sky Sports website feature. Once Sky noticed that evsrery week was just Cummings defending indefensible decisions though it seemed to disappear pretty quickly.

I will match your Roby and raise you Robert hicks

To hide them behind some sort of cloak of secrecy is immoral and prejudicial to the well-being of the future of our game. When I ref'd I can't think of one instance where I dropped a goolie and didn't own up to it. I've even been known to admit a mistake to the players on the field and honestly think I got more respect by doing so. Similarly, if anyone wanted to query a decision, I had no problem with giving a short reply on-field and if required, a more detailed explanation once the game had ended. Quite often decisions are subject to angles and although a ref can be in what would be considered the optimum position for an on-field decision to be made, an incident viewed from a different angle would often result in a different decision being made.

Providing there was no witch-hunt, there's absolutely no reason to deny more transparency.

Widnes feel this way whenever Hicks referees them - but that's another sad story.

Did Roby have his twitter hastag on his back

I don't think there's been a sudden glut of poor referees or refs giving poor decisions, most of the bad publicity can be put down to improved technologies.

In the past, apart from a couple of letters appearing in the following week's Rugby Leaguer or League Express, the only discussion would be among the disgruntled supporters on the terrace or in the pub afterwards. Televised matches were lucky to have more than a couple of cameras present, there were no video referees and if the commentators mentioned anything, it would be instantly forgotten about.

Unfortunately the refereeing side of the game seems to have ballen behind technology somewhat, hence the perception that today's officials are crap.

@roby2@

If you're using Stevo's rambling as the basis for any argument you've lost it before you put fingertip to keyboard.

I try not to focus too much on referees and their performances. Sometimes, I can get drawn in but overall I tend to find poor teams looking for excuses get drawn into that nonsense. Friday was a perfect example. Roby may not have been great but Hull were absolutely dreadful. If I were a Hull fan (spit) I'd be more worried about that.

I came away from the game not with thoughts of the ref but happy with the win, pleased that the first half was a better defensive display than Leeds have given in ages, bored by the 2nd half and bitterly disappointed that Hull hadn't given us more of a game.

Hull wouldn't have beaten us if the ref had given them every decision. Over the course of two games the decisions have evened themselves out, but the Hull fans will go into "selective memory" mode and totally forget about the rank bad decisions that went against Leeds at the KC including the Lee Smith non forward pass to Brent Webb that would have put us right back in the game but was called forward. There's definitely something in the air at Hull which has affected the supporters for years but has now turned the two managers into the biggest moaning minnies in the game. Sandycock and Gentle want games handing to them on a plate and don't seem to grasp the notion of losing to the better team on the day.

can you point to any occasion were Gentle has said anything about Tim Roby - his interivews are always spot on - blames the team for their inadequacies

that game at the kc would be the same one where leeds scored their first try from a pass which was 5 yards forward at least then? no reasonably thinking hull supporter is blaming the ref for the loss because we were poor and didnt deserve to win, peter gentle had said as much. however a level playing field would still have been nice

Hull fan sective memory? Or Leeds fan making up history?

1) If you can only point to one "incident" in a game, it hardly constitutes that the ref was against you, especially if you take out the forward pass that DID result in a try. Webb would have been tackled by Briscoe anyway.

2) Can you give me one quote where Gentle has complained about the ref this year?

what a

person you are, who else cud come out with such a comment, (I wont tarnish all Leeds fans the same as some are knowledgeable and unbias) yes Hull were poor on friday but take out 7 regular first team players out of any team and any team would struggle, on top of that an official who was as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Peter Gentle didnt make an excuses as to the loss on (a) an inadequate referee (unless ur Leeds Owl than he was fair) and (b) our injury crisis, but he did make the comment that Leeds played smarter footy and kicking game and we made poor decisions in attack etc etc and praised his players for the effort they put in. Gentle has always said it how it is win or lose, i agree Miss Sandycock does like the odd moan but not my place to comment on him.
As to the game at KC, Hull outplayed Leeds, yes the 'forward pass' which was given wasnt but you seem to have selective viewing and forget the 'forward pass' for Leeds first try which wasnt given (plus the countless others). So get use to the fact we beat you fair and square at KC and you beat us at Headingley (not fair and square but played better than us and defended better and deserved the 2pts)
That should be the end of it. Yes Hull have had it rough but we will carry on regardless and

I thought both Hicks and Roby were very good refs in the Championship and for that reason I am not surprised they in the Super LEague. I feel there should be more of a pathway for refs. The clubs price their fixtures in catergories why not put these refs for a couple of years reffing teams you would expect to be at the lower end of the league such as London, Widnes, Wakey, Cas, Salford for a season and also away from the Sky cameras to learn more about the ir trade.

so its acceptable for refs to screw up providing they get it out of their systems against the likes of Salford and widnes? If they are going to be bad then every team should have a fair crack at dealing with it.

No, I was not using a stevoism as the basis, merely referencing incidents to something which many would have heard on TV.

Having no less than ten first team players put and the perennial Hull issue of having cack halves I am staggered that Leeds didn't post 40+.

That Hull were unfairly penalised twice when they eventually got into a decent position is going to have a negative effect on a team who are massive underdogs, even the most myopic of fans should be able to see this.

It's also very easy to forget the referee when those decisions go in your favour

I think the point being that is a less pressure situation than two big clubs fighting for play-off places, so they're likely to have a better performance with the whistle.

You wouldn't put a new ref in a final. The new refs need helping. Chucking then in the deep end and seeing if they'll swim isn't what I'd call development.