It will all be fine, its happened before:

Next season SL will just have either the Bradford Broncos or the Catalan Bulls.

I agree, but whilst the clubs hold the power there won't ever be long term plans and structures put in place because they'll never be funded properly with the clubs wanting more and more.

Unfortunately, the worst thing to happen to RL in the last 20 years was Richard Lewis leaving. He seemed able to, at least, hold off the clubs. Nigel Wood, whilst I don't believe him to be as bad as some people would like to make out (and lay every problem or issue at his door), has failed to keep the clubs at bay.

Some blame lands with the clubs, in fact some on here will have you believe I am a fan of Nigel Wood simply because I don’t blame him for everything. I do think he is failing, and those around him don’t seem to be up to the job either. He seems completely out of his depth and lacks any sort of vision for the game, its structure, its ethos, or its future. He has basically stepped back, denied all responsibility and is hiding from any kind of leadership. He doesn’t even take responsibility for this new structure he has pushed through, he wants all of the power, none of the responsibility.

If you listen to him the reason why we haven’t changed the SC is because of the clubs,
the reason why we needed to re-introduce P+R is because of KPMG,
the reason why we got this structure is because of the clubs,
If a club gets relegated and struggles it is because they need to stand and fall on their own performance
If a club goes bust it is their fault.

The thing is, if Nigel Wood doesn’t do these things and isn’t responsible for the success of these things then we don’t need him. We could have a secretary to do the admin and use the money we pay him to get a few more youth coaches.

Nigel Woods one and only responsibility to the professional game is to create an environment where clubs and the game can fulfil their potential, regardless of his attempts to pass the buck, if he creates an environment where clubs are damaged by the league structure, where the game continues to struggle to get visibility and sponsorship and if we see crowds fall in the professional game. He is responsible for that.

It is my belief that the entire governance of the game needs to be restructured. Nigel Wood wears too many hats and we have consolidated too much power in the RFL which is why we see these huge shifts in ethos every few years where we see someone with balls put a plan in place, the game expands a bit we see a bit of consolidation in the heartlands, new man takes over, loses his bottle, we see a huge contraction, and so on.

The RFL should merge with Barla and be responsible for disciplinary, the international game, Youth and touch RL and amateur RL. Super League should have its own board of directors and marketing and commercial teams similar to the NRL independant commission, the championships should have their own Board of directors and marketing and commercial teams. Where these responsibilities cross there should be an overall RL Board consisting of 4 independent members, 3 SL members, 1 championship member, 3 RFL members.

Correct

The RFL is the game's governing body that's all.
The RFL board and executive is appointed by the members clubs.
If the member clubs want to make a change they will do.
But the board and executive is doing pretty well at present.
Fantastic World Cup. Fantastic new structure on the way in 2015.
Great new SKY deal. New Super League sponsor.
Club owners willing to invest in the game. Etc
If people have time, money and ideas they should offer their services to the Club they support and do all they can to help that Club acheive success.

many clubs would disagree with you on all of that. (except the WC, which was administered separately from the RFL)

Certainly in terms of the new TV deal being as good as advertised, the sponsorship whilst better than £0 is apparently worth about £40k to clubs which is only slightly better than £0.

The new strucutre doesnt have the support of a fair few clubs and its effects have yet to be seen

Not many, a few would disagree. Support for the new structures/ deals is in the majority. Your saying we should ignore a majority of clubs for the sake of a few?

is 7 of 12 a big enough majority to force a new structure on the other 5?

Does a majority as small as one can be have the mandate to dictate such a major change to a minority as big as one can be?

Yes. For one, there are more then 12 clubs whom will be affected by this particular vote, and as has been discussed at length I'm sure they're more than happy the changes are brought in. For another, I would hope the clubs put thought and consideration into any vote undertaken for our sport, big or small, ergo any majority is a majority big enough. The flip side is arguing that 5/12 is a big enough minority, which is a pointless endeavor after all who decides if it's big enough? If 40% disagree? 25%? A majority should rule whether by 1 person or 100.

You'd of thought we'd had a big enough majority in 1895 to continue missed work pay by your argument.

Quote ="Magic Superbeetle"Before people post these things, could we do some reading? The rfl have already answered this question here: www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/about_t ... reviewfaqs '" I think they said this not thinking for one minute that Catalan would have a really bad year. If Catalan go down then that would be awful for the game. Why would french TV be interested when France has no super league club. next season SL Europe could basically become SL M62. I am not looking forward to that!!!

Quote ="Magic Superbeetle"Before people post these things, could we do some reading? The rfl have already answered this question here: www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/about_t ... reviewfaqs '" I think they said this not thinking for one minute that Catalan would have a really bad year. If Catalan go down then that would be awful for the game. Why would french TV be interested when France has no super league club. next season SL Europe could basically become SL M62. I am not looking forward to that!!!

I can't agree that a majority should always rule. For a major structural change such as this you need consensus and we dont have it. We have a very small majority imposing its view on a very large minority. That is never going to be a recipe for success.

The fact is that when your vote is won by such a small margin, you dont have a mandate for major change. Should just one vote change then you dont have a majority at all.

You could even argue that 7 of 14 isnt a majority at all. it is literally only supported by half of those who had a vote.

When 50% of people didnt vote for a major change, you can't argue that A) the majority did, or B) that there is a mandate for fundemental change when half of the votes were not cast for such a change.

Exactly. Barnet is north of the north circular... I don't think you can have a club that is supposed to be representative of London so far out of London. No wonder they're not getting the crowds, they've taken the club to a completely different market, without any marketing (to put into context it's the equivalent of moving Hull's home games to Pocklington).

Massive missed trick not landing Leyton as their new home in my opinion.
- Big working class population in that area of East London to target
- Potential to be in the area where they could build a relationship with the Olympic Park to take bigger games to the Olympic Stadium just over the road
- More attractive for away supporters to visit who could incorporate a trip to the Olympic Park into their day (and good transport links from Kings X)
For this to happen they would have needed the club and the RFL to have a vision and be pulling in the same direction.

It's a crazy situation when so much good work in London is being undone by the professional club and governing body.

Not been on here for a while so it's reassuring that smokey is still providing the manure to feed the world

You eat manure? I'm sure there are websites for that but i don't think it's here

1. Bottom 2 go down...regardless of who it is
2. Catalans will not be in the bottom 2
3. There is an argument that London does have an appetite for top flight RL, but it involves extra funding and a 20 year plan....something that would never sit easy with most pit village clubs. It doesn't involve a megalomaniac flushing millions down the pan and the RFL refusing to pay a cent for the expansion of their game in the capital.
4. Smokey TA is correct in that the short termism and pandering to the lower clubs will do more damage than good to the game across the region.
5. London Broncos will ply their trade in the lower divisions from 2015 onwards and the next time we see a capital club in the top tier will be AGAIN by invitation. This is 100% the fault of the RFL and David Hughes......it is not the fault of the pit village clubs I allude to above.
6. I am really annoyed I have to agree with Smokey TA

For me, it's not the prospect of losing the 2 expansion clubs that would matter in itself, it is more a case of where are "we" trying to take the game of RL in this country.
Since the inception of SL, the ethos seemed to be about expanding the game and taking RL to new areas and growing the sport and whilst we do have new clubs in the 3rd tier, which may, or may not, become successful , this will take many, many years.
Over the last couple of years, there has been some talk of Toulouse entering SL, which would certainly have helped strengthen the game in France but, this now seems less likely to happen.
The top tier is still searching for "stronger competition" and "more meaningful fixtures" but this is no basis for taking the game forward.

Is everyone forgetting who's bottom of the league then?

Having gone to the Catalans vs Hull KR game in Toulouse last year I was bowled over by the opportunity for RL in the City (affluent town full of sports (and rugby) nuts, great stadium, already established team), and what that could do for RL in France with the 'local' rivalry within SL.

I remember hearing all sorts of reports about the RFL being there to observe and coming away from the weekend (where I think 15,000+ turned up for the match) thinking it's a given they'll be in SL within 1/2 years - it's just such a sensible decision for SL.

And then, of course, the RFL decided to cut the number of clubs and squander the opportunity...

It's not often I agree with you, but spot on. I wonder if the RFL actually realise what a top/strong London club would do for the game, London is the strongest commercial name in the sport. You can't demand national coverage if you're stuck on a small part of the M62, with a lot of small towns that most people haven't heard of.

Spot on. London is the right opportunity in the wrong hands.

David Hughes has ed £13,000,000+ up the wall since 2008. The blame for the state of the club now lies:
1. With Him.
2. With the idiots he employed to key roles but who were incompetent.
3. With the RFL for letting him do it.

In the book, A Pastel Revolution, Hughes is quoted as telling Ian Lenegan:[iI am an oil trader and successful at that but, but marketing, finance, business management, human resources etc are not my strengths[/i

I am stunned that the games governing body has permitted a man, who by his own admission is a crap businessman, to ruin the games chance of getting a foothold in the nations capital.

Everyone knows Bradford are currently at the bottom but unlike London and Les Catalans, Bradford have won 2 of their 4 games so far and so look like they are capable of quickly making up the deficit and climbing to safety. The same cannot be said so far of both London and Les Catalans, though the French are considered by most as the old cliché goes "too good to go down". While Bradford may end up being relegated West Yorkshire is hardly short of clubs (SL or otherwise). As far as the top tier goes both London and Les Catalans are the only game in town so their potential relegation could be strategically much more damaging to the sport. I'm sure you are aware of that though.

This is the risk run by reintroducing P & R although I feel the benefits will possibly outweigh the consequences. Especially in terms of fairness to sovereign clubs who have been purposely suppressed, and the effects of having something to play for at the lower end of the table. My club did benefit from licensing and the effects have been felt as we have been building season on season but there was always the nagging doubt that the RFL could simply toss us out at any moment plus the bitterness was massive across the board. I certainly felt it.

The acid test will be whether these teams are allowed to drop as others are or whether, as has happened in the past, certain clubs cheat the cap and are basically allowed to get away with it to save themselves because they are perceived as too big to go down. Will they be rescued or will they be treated like everyone else? I recall the season Wigan were struggling and there was a feeling that they were actually too big for us to lose to the championship. I don't think London are, and I think the south should be broached outside London to be frank, but Catalans is too big an opportunity to waste yet they may be and in the interests of fairness and equality (something ignored frequently) they can't be protected.

I am 100% in the Licencing camp, but now the RFL have decided that this new 8/8/8/ with a possible pathway to P&R is the way forward, then I hope that:
a/ they give it time. 6 years of Licencing wasn't enough...this new system needs 10 years or more before we can start to make judgements on it's success/failure
b/ Treat all clubs equally. Once they can rid themselves of the Lease on Odsal, the RFL need to get back to just running the game and leave "nature" take its course. Advances of TV cash and the like should be put to the SL chairmen in their monthly meetings and if clubs go under, then let them.

The club I support in SL will be in the lower tiers from next year and there can be little sympathy with our plight. The RFL have managed SL quite badly IMHO over the first 18 years, but let's hope they get the next stage of its existence right!

But Bradford would be just as big a loss to the SL though. Sure they're a basket case right now, with very little money, but there are no big city clubs currently playing in the Championship who have a potential to bring in 10K+ crowds waiting to replace them. Not to mention the history and prestige Bradford brought to SL. London and Catalan would be huge losses, but so would Bradford.