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| Quote ="Starbug"Then expect to be dissapointed as well'"
im happy with what a fair few clubs are doing, we just need to be doing it more
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"so you bring down the cap. Then you have the bigger clubs being able to offer less or get fewer players from other clubs,'"
Not saying what the answer is , just that your answer is not the right one
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| Quote ="Barnacle Bill"That would be, structure the cap to enhance further the dominance of Leeds/Saints I take it.'"
exactly
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"It would be a cap to enhance the domination of clubs based around players they have developed at the expense of those who wont do this'"
ie leeds and wigan dominance
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| Quote ="Starbug"But until you have all clubs at the maximum SC without bancrupting themselves in the process you will still have the big clubs monopolising the best talent
Whatever way you want to bake it , the bottom line is we need all clubs to be self sustaining and able to spend the full salary cap , until that happens you will not have a totally competitive competition'"
bingo.
and when that happens youll have a fantastic competition
if you think RL is booming now, just wait till it happens
in the short term im looking at hull fc, warrington and hudds to come through and challenge clubs like leeds and saints.
with clubs like wakey or cas, to really challenge the top clubs they need new grounds and its why i keep banging on about new grounds, so more clubs can compete with the best
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| Quote ="Starbug"Not saying what the answer is , just that your answer is not the right one'"
answer is firstly more revenues to ensure all clubs can spend the full cap. whether this is with more TV money, higher crowds, more sponsorship etc.
the franchising thing should help as the pressure is on clubs to get new grounds and improve finances.
im not too fussed if the salary cap doesnt go up for a while and instead the RFL ensures clubs finances are improved so all can spend the cap. so any future increases in sky money id put to higher club grants and leaving the salary cap where it is.
if each club got sasy 300,000 - 500,000 pounds more each, then that would mean pretty much everyone would spend the full cap and each club would be less reliant on sugar daddies.
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| it seems currently clubs need crowds of 10,000 - 11,000 to spend full salary cap and not be too heavily reliant on outside money. given average SL crowds of just under 9000 it shows where the game has to get too.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"i expect more from clubs designated elite'"
More what?
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| Quote ="Richie"More what?'"
effort, achievement, ambition
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| Quote ="Starbug"Not saying what the answer is , just that your answer is not the right one'"
forcing clubs to invest in youth development and making their SL success dependent on it is the only answer
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| Quote ="dally messenger"icon_lol.gif
ie leeds and wigan dominance'"
if thats the way it goes so be it.
Leeds shouldnt apologise for the success they have earned, and it isnt a bad thing. They way they built towards it is exactly how we want clubs to build for success, they should be rewarded for that not have their team ripped apart because other clubs would rather spend good money on average imports than spend the time, money and effort building for sustainable success
we shouldnt be afraid of our clubs successes we should celebrate it.
Hull should be in a better position to recruit because of the effort and success they have achieved in bringing through youth players.
whats funny is you still dont understand that your two examples of the salary cap working have been two examples of clubs spending money they arent earning on the first team at the expense of their youngsters
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"if thats the way it goes so be it.
Leeds shouldnt apologise for the success they have earned, and it isnt a bad thing. They way they built towards it is exactly how we want clubs to build for success, they should be rewarded for that not have their team ripped apart because other clubs would rather spend good money on average imports than spend the time, money and effort building for sustainable success
we shouldnt be afraid of our clubs successes we should celebrate it.
Hull should be in a better position to recruit because of the effort and success they have achieved in bringing through youth players.
whats funny is you still dont understand that your two examples of the salary cap working have been two examples of clubs spending money they arent earning on the first team at the expense of their youngsters'"
i personally cant wait to see clubs like leeds or saints losing good players to lesser clubs so they can grow
sure not having a salary cap means leeds win more titles
but thats not whats best for the game as a whole
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| Quote ="dally messenger"i personally cant wait to see clubs like leeds or saints losing good players to lesser clubs so they can grow
sure not having a salary cap means leeds win more titles
but thats not whats best for the game as a whole'"
id rather other clubs also started producing good players, Thats how we move forward
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"id rather other clubs also started producing good players, Thats how we move forward'"
if other clubs cant grow their crowds because the bigger clubs spend more on players, they dont have money to invest in juniors
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"effort, achievement, ambition'"
Effort? I don't seen anyone not succeeding for lack of trying.
Achievement? There's only so much to go around. No more trophies will be won.
Ambition? They all seem to be trying to win something, hence the influx of foreign signings.
You'll have to expand further and in more detail.
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| Quote ="dally messenger"if other clubs cant grow their crowds because the bigger clubs spend more on players, they dont have money to invest in juniors'"
They could spend it if they avoided spending money on players like Rhys Lovegrove or Damien Blanch
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| Quote ="Richie"Effort? I don't seen anyone not succeeding for lack of trying.'"
really? you think all SL clubs are putting every ounce of effort into bringing through juniors?
Quote Achievement? There's only so much to go around. No more trophies will be won.'"
In this context acheivement would be bringing in the required number of juniors
Quote Ambition? They all seem to be trying to win something, hence the influx of foreign signings.'" im not sure thats the case. I dont think all 14 clubs have retained and recruited this season to give them the best chance of winning a trophy either this season or going forward. Some are simply treading water
Quote You'll have to expand further and in more detail.'"
No problem.
our elite clubs have a duty to the game, if they are the top of the RL pyramid and they are given all the benefits that provides they have a responsibility to the game in this country, That responsibility is to provide a pathway for the young players of this country to fulfil their potential.
We can use a carrot and stick approach through the salary cap to help achieve this. We currently dont
I would like to see clubs who dont invest the time effort and skill into helping as many kids as possible fulfil their potential punished and those who do rewarded.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"really? you think all SL clubs are putting every ounce of effort into bringing through juniors?
In this context acheivement would be bringing in the required number of juniors
im not sure thats the case. I dont think all 14 clubs have retained and recruited this season to give them the best chance of winning a trophy either this season or going forward. Some are simply treading water'"
But this is all within the context of the licensing requirement isn't it? Clubs are doing what they think will earn them the maximum amount of points for the next round of franchising, which will necessarily involve different strategies. Of course your goal of producing more juniors could be achieved through weighting the respective areas differently, this would then better align the goals of the club with the goal of producing more juniors.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"really? you think all SL clubs are putting every ounce of effort into bringing through juniors?'"
It's Super League. Not Super School
Quote ="SmokeyTA"In this context acheivement would be bringing in the required number of juniors'"
Required for what? This is professional sport, not some addition to the school system.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"im not sure thats the case. I dont think all 14 clubs have retained and recruited this season to give them the best chance of winning a trophy either this season or going forward. Some are simply treading water'"
Who?
Quote ="SmokeyTA"
No problem.
our elite clubs have a duty to the game, if they are the top of the RL pyramid and they are given all the benefits that provides they have a responsibility to the game in this country, That responsibility is to provide a pathway for the young players of this country to fulfil their potential.
We can use a carrot and stick approach through the salary cap to help achieve this. We currently dont
I would like to see clubs who dont invest the time effort and skill into helping as many kids as possible fulfil their potential punished and those who do rewarded.'"
With the RFL, BARLA, Summer Conference, National Conference and Champtionship all in place, why are you asking our TV and spectator showpiece and greatest revenue generator to also function as a school system?
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| Quote ="Barnacle Bill"But this is all within the context of the licensing requirement isn't it? Clubs are doing what they think will earn them the maximum amount of points for the next round of franchising, which will necessarily involve different strategies. Of course your goal of producing more juniors could be achieved through weighting the respective areas differently, this would then better align the goals of the club with the goal of producing more juniors.'"
Exactly.
This is pro sport. Whilst it's nice if teams can produce junior players, that can never be the prime aim of the league.
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| Quote ="Richie"It's Super League. Not Super School
Required for what? This is professional sport, not some addition to the school system.
Who?
With the RFL, BARLA, Summer Conference, National Conference and Champtionship all in place, why are you asking our TV and spectator showpiece and greatest revenue generator to also function as a school system?'"
He seems to be selective in his description of SL , this time he is forgetting it is a business , something he has reminded me of many times
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| Quote ="Barnacle Bill"But this is all within the context of the licensing requirement isn't it? Clubs are doing what they think will earn them the maximum amount of points for the next round of franchising, which will necessarily involve different strategies. Of course your goal of producing more juniors could be achieved through weighting the respective areas differently, this would then better align the goals of the club with the goal of producing more juniors.'"
There is no reason both cant be done
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| Quote ="Richie"It's Super League. Not Super School'" it is the pinnacle of the game in this country. Not having the necessary pathways to produce enough young players of sufficient quality to not only sustain the game but grow and improve it will lead to ruin. Right now we dont have close to that, we rely on the Australian system for a huge part of it
Quote Required for what? This is professional sport, not some addition to the school system.'" required to make sure this club that has been granted an opportunity at SL level is actually making a meaningful contribution to SL
Quote Who?'" id rather not get into an inter-club spat, suffice to say i dont think all SL clubs have a plan to get from where they are to the top. Some are happy mid-tablers
Quote
With the RFL, BARLA, Summer Conference, National Conference and Champtionship all in place, why are you asking our TV and spectator showpiece and greatest revenue generator to also function as a school system?'" im not, im asking them to make sure they have the pathways underneath them to bring through as many young british players as possible. Im not asking SL to turn itself in to the SL academy, im asking SL clubs to put everything in place to make sure that more players of better quality and more potential is fulfilled by players leaving SL academies. Im asking them to put more effort and more quality in scouting and training more young players, Which will in turn improve SL, improve the levels below it, improve our international side, and put the game on a much more sustainable and stable footing.
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| Quote ="Richie"Exactly.
This is pro sport. Whilst it's nice if teams can produce junior players, that can never be the prime aim of the league.'"
it is one of its prime aims, its what keeps the league going
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| Quote ="Starbug"He seems to be selective in his description of SL , this time he is forgetting it is a business , something he has reminded me of many times'"
Im not forgetting its a business. I think it makes business sense. Investing in your employees is rarely a bad thing, Neither is training them to be better
And i dont really think that the game would suffer long term from seeing us replace the likes of Scott Donald or Ryan Mcgoldrick or Michael Korkidas with british players
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