With unreserved seating dont they have to leave a certain amount of seats free for H&S?
i'd expect about 22k

Mouth - Soap

I think Wigan-Wire has sold around 22500 up to now. H&S reduces the capacity for some bizarre reason.

See what I mean now when I say they are spoiled? Try supporting Swinton, Coldham, Widnes or any of the team that have been dumped on by Super Duper League and are still fighting today.

Lose a few games and the world's going to end. I would love for Cas to have their success and sit where they are in the table now.

I'd have a nose bleed if Leigh are ever that good again and i'd jump through hoops to go watching them, I bet you would too Fully if it were Cas.

The problem with some Saints fans is that they think that it's their right to be the top side.

A lot of fans are like that. I'm sure there are an element of Bradford, Warrington, Wigan and Leeds fans like that. And I'm sure if any other club had a period of dominance such as these, some would just be as expectant. It's the fickle nature of sport, I'm afraid.

No, no, no. You have misinterpreted what I put. Winning is simply not a big issue to Saints fans.

What is an issue is entertainment, or rather the lack of it.

But they're your team, through thick and thin. And you don't go because they don't wazz the ball all over the place like they used to? Turn up and let them know then.

I'd take a winning team over entertainment. It's alright playing like the Harlem Globetrotters as long as you're clinical enough to convert that play into points. Some teams that play expansive rugby leak points.

And anyway, each coach is going to bring a different attitude to the camp and a different style of play. Your side has probably got more defensive and restricted in play due to the old guard leaving or retiring and younger blood coming in, making it harder to settle down and get used to the system.

You ought to try living in London my friend if you consider St Helens not to be an entertaining side

If you want to watch Superleage down here all you have is Harlequins

its to do with unreserved seating and presumably to stop a last minute scramble for the remaining ones - it reduces capacity by 1500 or so in a 25000 stadium. its the same at hull

Yeah I know mate, bit daft if you ask me. If the seats are there, fill them up.

its because people arrive bang on kickoff and won't be able to see the odd spare seat in the middle of rows, causing congestion on the stairs.

I think its a good idea, but it could probably cope with only being 5% left empty and not 10%

there are rumours that Hull are to turn the east stand to completely reserved next year anyway, due to high season ticket demand.

If true

Impressive

How come there was only 20k at the KC when it looked packed out?

Good question Jonny.

The camera angle rarely panned to the Upper West Stand, the southern end of the Upper West was scarcely populated. Also there were empty blocks of seating at either side of the away end for crowd safety enforced segregation areas. The design of the KC took into account the prospect of RL falling below capacity but was designed to 'appear' fuller. The lower bowl of the KC holds approx 19k. In ordinary fixtures the upper tier is not used and therefore with an average of say 14k at the KC, it does not feel like we are rattling around when the separate upper tier is empty and often ignored by those at the stadium (and by TV cameras), I think it works and gives a feeling of a fuller stadium and promotes a better atmosphere. Other similar sized and top quality SL grounds such as Wigan and Huddersfield did not use this design feature and any large areas of empty seats are often exposed on TV. I also think it detracts from the atmosphere when there are large gaps between popular seating areas. We don't really have this at the KC as three sides are well populated by the home fans and if the opposition bring well over a thousand fans the atmosphere can be quite good as the stadium is then populated on all four sides.

PS. I think your stadium is wonderful and hope you get up in the SL soonest.

I saw the odd camera shot of the upper tier and it looked pretty full, as you know it's hard to sat but there were definately a few in there.

I've got to admit I love the design of the KC so that it always looks packed and has a good atmosphere, I didn't get chance to go up there in 2005 so i'm going to go to an England game there when we next have a game there.

Glad you like LSV.

kc's a great stadium.
I love Wigan though, the atmosphere tonight should be unreal

it also helps the atmosphere in that the 4 corners are filled in with seats rather than gaps between the stands (mind you we could do with losing chav corner

)

You took the words right out of my mouth, the one thing I don't like about the DW is the very open corners. We don't have them filled in but there are a couple of structures where the screens go to cover two of them. I think I heard (may have dreamt it) that Warrington are going to fill in the corners at The HJ.

I have been to the KC a couple of times, and it is a brilliant stadium in my opinion, and really good atmosphere.

Salfords original plans had a stand like the one at the KC, not sure if they have kept to those plans.