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| Quote ="Hear Ye!"Arghh!! It's the same argument all the time.. but I must admit it is a very low number of fans.
London has had a pro RL team for about 30 years now....but haven't had a base or team for that long...they've been Fulham, London Crusaders, London Broncos, Harlequins RL.. they've also moved all over London, which I have to inform you (if you live in a bubble and didn't realise) is a rather large city. You can't just jump on one bus and get to the ground from all of London...nor will one train get you there. The commute to and from the game is always going to isolate half the city or more. Unless you drive (and the roads can be a nightmare) it is a long journey that lots of people can't be bothered with...especially when it's cold, hammering with rain and the opposition isn't exactly a title contender.
You then have 3 or 4 professional RU clubs in the city (which have a large fan base of people generally already converted to RU and not willing to give RL a chance), then you have 5 premiership football teams around the city who take up most of the other sport support....you aren't left with much of a willing audience.
No disrespect, but towns/cities like =#FF0000Leigh, Widnes, Halifax etc don't have these barriers to stop match day attendances rising...so, coupled with the long heritage of growing up with a settled team and culture of RL these teams probably do have a higher volume supporters.
RL in London is critical, maybe not everyone can see it....and I admit it is hard to accept when your team is kept out of SL because of the London team...but the number of players taking up and developing in the sport in the South East is massive, as such a pro top tier level team is crucial in order to give them a goal to aim for. In the next 5-10 years it will increase the player pool England/GB can select from and give us the possibility of beating the Aussies (as it clearly hasn't worked for some time with the current production of players of the so called big teams!!)
But, hey that's just my opinion!!'"
So us having Man Utd , Man City ,Liverpool , Everton ,Wigan Athletic ,Bolton ,W1g4n worryiers ,Warrington wolves ,Saint helens and Salford on our doorstep isnt a draw for our potential fan base is it ?
Not forgetting that travel between the furthest apart is around 40 minutes by car , whereas its 3 days to get from one side of the ' smoke ' to the other
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| Quote ="Hear Ye!"Not to turn this to an RU post..but..
Quins play in Twickenham and train at Surrey Sports.
Saracens are only slightly outside of London (Watford)....for now, talk of them moving nearer the City.
London Irish train in Sunbury and only play their pro matches in Reading....as such large amounts of their supporter base and junior/family set up members live in South West London
London Wasps (breakaway team from Quins) train in Acton and play their games in Wycombe (again not far off London)
As such many RU fans in London follow one of these teams'"
Exactly.
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| [urlhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/feb/20/harlequins-castleford-leeds-super-league[/url
Not sure if this has been posted or not but the picture on the guardian website says it all. Don't want to re-hash all the same arguments but things are clearly not working out at the stoop.
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| Quote ="Starbug"So us having Man Utd , Man City ,Liverpool , Everton ,Wigan Athletic ,Bolton ,W1g4n worryiers ,Warrington wolves ,Saint helens and Salford on our doorstep isnt a draw for our potential fan base is it ?
'"
As a RL team....I'm pretty certain anyone born and bred in Leigh wouldn't support Wigan RL, St Helens, Salford, Warrington etc.
Again, Probably both Manchester teams would be the contest for Leigh support levels...the other's are based in Liverpool or further away areas.
My post highlights the issue of "London"....I have as such named the teams of both football and RU that fall under that city. I appreciate there are many teams around Leigh - because it is in the RL hotbed of Lancashire. Without driving, can you get from Leigh (and again I only use this as an example because of your post) on one train or bus to Bolton Wanderers? Not that it really matters...its just an example. Halifax etc are other clubs that bring the crowd issue against Quins also.
If you look at it in reverse...how many top RU teams are in that area...I guess Sale at a push. So you only have football to compete with.
I've only named 2 other sports that London has to compete with...there are more.
......
And the issue of the other RU teams playing outside of London at present is an odd argument...as they all originated in the London area, yet moved in a couple of cases away to a neighboring town for their games....as such the supporter base will still attract those in the London area to them. 3 of the 4 teams I mentioned still have their main "hq" or base in London.
......
Anyway, back to the actual point and post in question....allowed myself to get taken off course by a couple of pointless replies there! ..... London is vital on many levels to RL...Quins may not be the right place, but there isn't room in London to house a team in a good stadium or to build a new one. That's the problem they face....as such whilst staying in one location no more than a decade (at most) they haven't been able to build a community or large following....just a few thousand loyal fans who'll follow all over the city.
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| Quote ="Hear Ye!"Arghh!! It's the same argument all the time.. but I must admit it is a very low number of fans.
London has had a pro RL team for about 30 years now....but haven't had a base or team for that long...they've been Fulham, London Crusaders, London Broncos, Harlequins RL.. they've also moved all over London, which I have to inform you (if you live in a bubble and didn't realise) is a rather large city. You can't just jump on one bus and get to the ground from all of London...nor will one train get you there. The commute to and from the game is always going to isolate half the city or more. Unless you drive (and the roads can be a nightmare) it is a long journey that lots of people can't be bothered with...especially when it's cold, hammering with rain and the opposition isn't exactly a title contender.
You then have 3 or 4 professional RU clubs in the city (which have a large fan base of people generally already converted to RU and not willing to give RL a chance), then you have 5 premiership football teams around the city who take up most of the other sport support....you aren't left with much of a willing audience.
No disrespect, but towns/cities like Leigh, Widnes, Halifax etc don't have these barriers to stop match day attendances rising...so, coupled with the long heritage of growing up with a settled team and culture of RL these teams probably do have a higher volume supporters.
RL in London is critical, maybe not everyone can see it....and I admit it is hard to accept when your team is kept out of SL because of the London team...but the number of players taking up and developing in the sport in the South East is massive, as such a pro top tier level team is crucial in order to give them a goal to aim for. In the next 5-10 years it will increase the player pool England/GB can select from and give us the possibility of beating the Aussies (as it clearly hasn't worked for some time with the current production of players of the so called big teams!!)
But, hey that's just my opinion!!'"
Maybe the same argument but it is also the same excuses i'm sure you'll agree? I'd even push to say it's harder to gain fans in the heartlands for some clubs as they like RL yes but will already have club aleigences, should a fan down south get into there RL then Quins RL stand out as there one option?
I know it's easy saying but as has been mentioned earlier you need to get those kids playing RL in the area into the Stoop! Only say what 1/20 will make the academy or what have you, so you need ot make sure at least 5 out of the rest are going to the ground on a regular basis.
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| Quote ="J20"icon_mad.gifk8u7hyuMaybe the same argument but it is also the same excuses i'm sure you'll agree? I'd even push to say it's harder to gain fans in the heartlands for some clubs as they like RL yes but will already have club aleigences, should a fan down south get into there RL then Quins RL stand out as there one option?
[
I know it's easy saying but as has been mentioned earlier you need to get those kids playing RL in the area into the Stoop! Only say what 1/20 will make the academy or what have you, so you need ot make sure at least 5 out of the rest are going to the ground on a regular basis.'" icon_mad.gifk8u7hyu
b icon_mad.gifk8u7hyuThis is very true....once
I completely agree....Quins job should be 95% aiming at getting these kids to come to games and they shouldn't be charged for this. It must be going on....but more effort is needed to turn the parents and families towards RL so that they are willing to spend their money on RL and not RU and football etc.
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| Quote Not sure if this has been posted or not but the picture on the guardian website says it all. Don't want to re-hash all the same arguments but things are clearly not working out at the stoop.'"
If I was to suggest that stand in the picture down the side of the pitch wasnt open would that suprise you?
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| Brilliant journalistic licence to take a picture from the corner of one stand that isn't open of the other stand that isn't open!!!
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| Quote ="Hear Ye!"As a RL team....I'm pretty certain anyone born and bred in Leigh wouldn't support Wigan RL, St Helens, Salford, Warrington etc.
Again, Probably both Manchester teams would be the contest for Leigh support levels...the other's are based in Liverpool or further away areas.
My post highlights the issue of "London"....I have as such named the teams of both football and RU that fall under that city. I appreciate there are many teams around Leigh - because it is in the RL hotbed of Lancashire. Without driving, can you get from Leigh (and again I only use this as an example because of your post) on one train or bus to Bolton Wanderers? Not that it really matters...its just an example. Halifax etc are other clubs that bring the crowd issue against Quins also.
If you look at it in reverse...how many top RU teams are in that area...I guess Sale at a push. So you only have football to compete with.
I've only named 2 other sports that London has to compete with...there are more.
......
And the issue of the other RU teams playing outside of London at present is an odd argument...as they all originated in the London area, yet moved in a couple of cases away to a neighboring town for their games....as such the supporter base will still attract those in the London area to them. 3 of the 4 teams I mentioned still have their main "hq" or base in London.
......
Anyway, back to the actual point and post in question....allowed myself to get taken off course by a couple of pointless replies there! ..... London is vital on many levels to RL...Quins may not be the right place, but there isn't room in London to house a team in a good stadium or to build a new one. That's the problem they face....as such whilst staying in one location no more than a decade (at most) they haven't been able to build a community or large following....just a few thousand loyal fans who'll follow all over the city.'"
I see more W1g4n , Wire and Saints shirts in Leigh during the week than Leigh ones
We are almost exactly in the middle of Manchester and Liverpool , and both are easily accessable by bus and there are large numbers of fans in the town of all 4 clubs
Yes you can catch a bus outside my house that will take you directly to either Bolton Wanderers and W1g4n athletic
Dont forget that because we dont have problems with parking and dont have a transport system like the tube more people probably travel by car up here than down there
And even though we have 2 of the top amatuer clubs less than half a mile from the LSV , very few of those players both junior and senior ever come watching Leigh Centurions , it seems to me RL is either played or watched , not both , so even though Quins have helped in the development of several southern originated players , it doesn't follw that lots of people playing will equate to people watching
What the answer is I can only guess , and that is it requires money , lots of it
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| Quote ="Paddock Punter"Brilliant journalistic licence to take a picture from the corner of one stand that isn't open of the other stand that isn't open!!!'"
While carefully making sure that the stand which is open isn't included in the pic …
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| Quote ="tb"While carefully making sure that the stand which is open isn't included in the pic …'"
But surely it is slightly worrying that they only need to open one stand in a stadium with a capacity of around 10/12 thousand , wouldn't you say ?
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| yes
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| Quote ="Starbug"But surely it is slightly worrying that they only need to open one stand in a stadium with a capacity of around 10/12 thousand , wouldn't you say ?'"
Yup, which may have been the point of the picture! Had he shot teh centre of the open stand looking pretty full wouldn't of shown the story really would it!
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| That's why we open two!
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| Quote ="Paddock Punter"That's why we open two!'"
Was there anybody in the other one ?
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| About 40 Welsh people
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| Quote ="Hear Ye!"
Anyway, back to the actual point and post in question....allowed myself to get taken off course by a couple of pointless replies there! ..... London is vital on many levels to RL...Quins may not be the right place, but there isn't room in London to house a team in a good stadium or to build a new one. That's the problem they face....as such whilst staying in one location no more than a decade (at most) they haven't been able to build a community or large following....just a few thousand loyal fans who'll follow all over the city.'"
London isn't vital at ALL levels cos' quite clearly hardly anyone is interested in SL level ! the lower levels need to develop as they are doing at present so that in a few years time,when the RL game will hopefully have evolved in the southern counties a team like Quins can be a valid member of the SL set-up with the Skolars or similar backing up in the Championship.
Remember,Romford wasn't built in a day !
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| Quote ="Hear Ye!"As a RL team....I'm pretty certain anyone born and bred in Leigh wouldn't support Wigan RL, St Helens, Salford, Warrington etc.
Again, Probably both Manchester teams would be the contest for Leigh support levels...the other's are based in Liverpool or further away areas. '"
You must live in a parallel universe then where you don't actually see Wigan, Saints and Wire tops down Bradshawgate every day, and that's not to mention I know more than a few Salford fans who live here. To put it in to perspective, I went to the Willows on Friday and it took 12 minutes from my front door to parking up on Tootal Drive!
The Reebok is 7 miles from my house, the DW 8 miles - I'd hardly class that as "further away"?! And don't forget Blackburn Rovers Reserves play at the LSV which means they're doing a lot of marketing in schools etc to try and attract fans from this area.
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| Not sure how London RL fans can say it's not easy to get from A to B in less than an hour, but still include sides from the likes of Watford & Reading as competition and then will say Leigh can't count Liverpool as competition when i'd say that's less than an hour?
Within an hours travel of Widnes you'd hit Manchester, Liverpool, Bolton for football as well as Wigan plus rugby, Saints, wire and even the Yorkshire clubs!
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| We are Harlequins RL...we get crap crowds.....we are in SL until at least the end of this season...we play in a stadium owned by a Union team.......some people complain because the stadium isn't at the end of their garden....none of these things have a direct impact on the other 13 clubs in Superleague.
This thread, like the many we used to get before the Welsh came along and stole our thunder, is pointless. If 1 man and his dog turned up to watch us play.......it would only matter if David Hughes decided he's had enough.
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| Quote ="Paddock Punter"Brilliant journalistic licence to take a picture from the corner of one stand that isn't open of the other stand that isn't open!!!'"
Still less than 1800 though.
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| Quote ="gutterfax"We are Harlequins RL...we get crap crowds.....we are in SL until at least the end of this season...we play in a stadium owned by a Union team.......some people complain because the stadium isn't at the end of their garden....none of these things have a direct impact on the other 13 clubs in Superleague.
This thread, like the many we used to get before the Welsh came along and stole our thunder, is pointless. If 1 man and his dog turned up to watch us play.......it would only matter if David Hughes decided he's had enough.'"
Never happen, SKY dictates whether you go or stay.
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| Quote ="Cassandra"Never happen, SKY dictates whether you go or stay.'"
I'd like to think Uncle Rupert would fund us if and when DH decides he's had enough.....but I somehow doubt it. We need 2,000,000 a year in revenue or 8,000 more fans per game to be self sufficient....without DH we would be gone unless SKY propped us up.
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| Quote ="gutterfax"I'd like to think Uncle Rupert would fund us if and when DH decides he's had enough.....but I somehow doubt it. We need 2,000,000 a year in revenue or 8,000 more fans per game to be self sufficient....without DH we would be gone unless SKY propped us up.'"
The thing is you need that extra money to start getting somewhere , as I stated earlier ' for the good of the game ' you should get an extra mill comenserate with your value to the competition and the other clubs IMHO of course
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| Quote ="Starbug"The thing is you need that extra money to start getting somewhere , as I stated earlier ' for the good of the game ' you should get an extra mill comenserate with your value to the competition and the other clubs IMHO of course
'"
Rupert owns the Storm...I think DH's statement and posturing last year were pretty much a statment along the lines that Rupert should bankroll us the same way.....the RFL agreed to "help"....so maybe Rupert is paying some other bills?
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