All we hav is Cru press release saying they believe has been paid yet now HMRC can't confirm so carries on and Cru chairman says no comment?

It's in the national press I doubt they forgot. How hard is it for Cru to hand in recirpt of tax payment and HMRC to ratify? They wouldn't gave even held hearing if was sent in when first mentioned!

Read my posts above as to how these hearings worse. It's all in there (unless you just want to ignore them and come up with some conspiracy that doesn't exist).

If HMRC knew they hadn't been paid, why didn't they ask for a winding up order to be made at the hearing?

I have done. I am more on about what happened pre meeting. The HMRC do state for these things that if payment is made then the hearing will not take place, Cru said it was yet stilll went through?

I am not saying there is a conspiracy, but is it not a worry for any club that their board first couldn't remember a £60,000 tax payment and secondly then can't find the documents to prove it? I personally thought once statement was made they would of contacted HMRC with the proof and that would be that, hearing a formality at worst.

The hearing was a winding up order. It was dealyed as Cru counsel said they had paid so has been delayed so they can sort that (Wakefield did the same when debating amounts). A 60k oversight that leads to a winding up order is a big deal and does it not raise the question who is looking after Crusaders books if they can't / couldn't locate it?

There is no agenda here btw, but any RL club being run without seemingly a clue about their own finances must be a huge worry?

HMRC will still want to check that payment has been made to them. Would you simply accept someone's word especially over a substantial sum? I have had two cases recently where a local authority and a utility have not withdrawn claims where I have provided them with copies of my clients' cheques with confirmation they were cashed by them from the bank. In neither case did they withdraw until they had checked their own accounts (wnich I would guess is not the easiest thing with organisations of that size).

If a cheque has been allocated to the wrong ledger it is not always easy to find. I have just had a client's cheque to HMRC go walkabout at one of their offices so it does happen. I imagine they would be under an obligation to find a misapplied payment as it will be creditingan account which shouldn't be credited.

Virtually any business of consequence pays bills - especially on this scale - electronically nowdays. You can make a same-day value CHAPS payment. Should be no need to be waiting on cheques. Unless the payer is trying to squeeze an extra few days credit.

I understand that, but that's where also I expected the Crusaders Chairman to come out and say 'we are just waiting for them to confirm payment recieved' rather than 'no comment' considering effectively they could of been wound up yesterday you'd of thought they'd have been banging on the door to find out if the HMRC had confirmed payment or not. Seem's they just want to glide their way into administartion and remove any issues un dealt with.

That would be quite a few then!!!

How many clubs have gone to into the mire over the years and how many more are teetering at the moment?

Dunno but how many Superleague club chairmen got nicked for poncing drugs?

There's having bad finances and not having a clue what's going on!

Does anyone have the know how to answer this question?

The Crusaders have already set up a new company called Welsh Crusaders. It was incorporated on 20th October, according to Companies House, if I recall correctly. There is a strong suggestion that they will go into administration. Ignoring the RFL approach (which will be to ignore everything that casts doubt on the Crusaders as a viable franchise), can a company close itself down to avoid paying creditors, and then set up again at exactly the same place, doing the same thing, employing the same people (ie, the players)? If so, doesn't that make all the old playing contracts null and void, as they were with the old company, and mean that the players have to negotiate new ones? And is there any scope for creditors to say that the closing of one company and restarting as the new one is a bit of a shame and go after the new company.

My limited knowledge of company law suggests that you can't have it both ways. Or can you?

As far as I know it is the company that goes into administration and not the individual, as long the owner is smart he can shut up shop say 'Oh well that sucked' then start up again the following week.
Now i'm not certain if a company can prempt it by starting the NEW company before the old one is dead.

Happens all the time

I would guess that as with the London Bronco's back in 2005 , its all about the timing of the announcements

You can........London Broncos offered to pay...were told to fold...did so, re-emerged under a new holding company, same team, same coach, same backroom staff etc...same landlords for the rest of the season...kept our points mid season at the ruling of the then SL chairmen......Made the Play-offs Leigh finished last, Widnes second last, both were relegated with The French joining the Party.
Expansion........it ain't a northern thing

You forgot.. signed a load of players that they couldn't afford including Widnes bound Thomas Lealui.

Yep. As someone else pointed out, it happens all the time. I've lost count of the number of print firms I've dealt with over the past 25 years who've done exactly that, and the only change in practical terms has been the name on their invoice.

Entered Administration.

Confirmed in Admin

[urlhttp://www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=rleague/10/11/12/manual_114442.html[/url

Shame for them.

I guess that Slugger is spot on then - they'll be opening as Welsh Crusaders today.

Does this mean they get dropped from Superleague straight away because of insolvency or at next franchise hand out?

Wasn't there something said about Widnes when they failed to get a franchise?

It will be a shame to see them go - enjoyed my trip to Wrexham last year and the people were more than helpful and glad to see us around the town.

They won't get dropped no chance! The RFL have already removed insolvency from the SL criteria in the past month!

It’s probably been OK’d by the RFL to continue in SL, probably on minus points at the start of next season.

Convenient that.

The club shareholders took action at the High Court of Justice in Leeds to prevent the club from being wound up by creditors, who are thought to include HM Revenue and Customs and former owner Leighton Samuel.

That guy is scum I guess he didnt bleed them dry enough the first time around.

If these lot get a franchise over Castleford or Wakefield, I will walk away from the sport for good.

What a farcical situation. They shouldnt start on minus points for me. They just shouldnt be allowed to apply for a franchise for 3 years.

I feel the same. The whole thing is a shanbles and they should be thrown out and Widnes or Fax be instated.