Nice.

I stand corrected.

Losing what potential ? , you mean players , as I said read Derwents post earlier , as for stadiums , read my posts on the York stadium thread , unless one of the clubs could afford the 12/15 million to build one they owned then it wouldn't ever produce the revenue needed , it will never happen

You stated that a club could get more fans in SL than Quins and Crusaders , as if in some way that makes them a viable SL club , as I said Leigh,Fax,and Fev could all achieve that , does that make any of those viable franchisable SL clubs ? No it doesn't and a nice council stadium and 4,000 fans wouldn't make Barrow,haven or Town one either

Losing the potential for players and fans, young kids picking up the game.

I stated that they could get more fans but I DID NOT make out it would make them viable, YOU MADE THAT UP YOURSELF.

What I actually said was I believe a 10 team super league would be the way to go. Also when measuring teams outside the top flight, they should be measured against the lesser teams in the top flight, that is their current benchmark unfortunatly.

You would disagree, argue and cry even if someone said your RLFANS name was starbug, you are just that guy.

Considering we currently don't have a Cumbrian club in the top 24 British RL clubs , it's highly unlikely we will ever have one in a 10 team top tier , so the argument is irrelevant , it won't happen , ever

I agree. But if we are talking in terms of a top 14 as we have at the moment... with a new stadium I think Barrow could offer just as much as many teams in super league, maybe more.

Realistically we only have Wigan, Warrington, St Helens, Leeds and Hull FC who only really justify the name 'super'.

Huddersfield, Hull KR, Catalans, Bradford are almost there, hopefully we will see an improvement over the next few years.

The thing that annoys me about a 14 team league with a franchise system is that there is no competition to get into the league, we all knew for sure it would be Widnes this time, thats boring and makes the system useless IMO.

A ten team league would make the contest for promotion very interesting. We would have 5 or 6 teams with a genuine chance. This competition would force the clubs to improve every aspect of the club rather than getting away with bare minimum or faking a new stadium design.

No region has got a god given right to have a team in the SL, if they want it badly enough the clubs involved need to start getting their act together on and off the pitch (supported in large enough numbers by the fans)

Barrows in Lancashire

Think the only place with a smidgeon of a chance of being able to host SL in Cumbria is Carlisle, and there just isn't the interest up there. Carlisle itself isn't even that big.

The population is just way too spread out.

Anyone noticed that Cumbria is a huge, but sply populated area? Wikipedia cites it as having "the second lowest population density among English counties."

A lot of people spread over a large area - doesn't sound like a recipe for a sustainable SL club to me, even if all the clubs agreed to merge.

Yesterday's BARLA County Championship results :-

U17 - Cumbria 22 v Yorkshire 20
U19 - Cumbria 56 v Yorkshire 14
Open Age - Cumbria 34 v Yorkshire 22

Not bad for a small population......

Never in doubt that you produce good players and good amatuer clubs Derwent , just that you know just as well as me , that the sort of co operation and forgetting of past histories needed will never happen

To be honest its a chicken and egg situation. I honestly believe that there is a groundswell of opinion that Town and Haven should get together and look at forming a West Cumbria club (forget Barrow for geographical and logistical reasons). The problem is that nobody wants to put their head above the parapet and lead it, for the fear of it failing and them being branded as the person who tried to kill off Town or Haven. The biggest problem though is money, or rather the lack of it. Once upon a time we could have looked to the nuclear industry for large scale funding for a stadium and infrastructure etc but since that industry was privatised the tap has been turned off somewhat. I do actually believe that, done properly, a SL team could succeed around here as there is a lot of interest in RL - its the thousands who don't currently attend either Town or Haven games that should be polled rather than the diehards of both clubs. But without the money to start it up then its a non-starter and I just don't see where that money is going to come from in the current economic climate.

Personally I would like to see the RFL act as facilitators and lead a study to determine once and for all whether its a goer or not. They could start by inviting all potential stakeholders - both clubs, both borough councils (Allerdale & Copeland), Cumbria County Council, Cumbria Tourist Board, University of Cumbria, Lakes College, major local employers etc - to a meeting to gauge opinions and explore the pros and cons. They could even have it in secret somewhere to protect the innocent ! I think if you got all of these organisations around a table then you would at least get a decent basis to say yes lets do a proper feasibility study or no its a complete non-starter and lets put it to bed once and for all. At the moment nobody actually knows and everybody just works off assumption, and in some cases pure fantasy. It'd be nice to have some reality.

For it to succeed as you suggest would need the RFL to guarantee a place in SL , would they do that ?

Barrow has got the potential for Super League. They've got a rich backer, problem is he's mad as a box of frogs.

Populations:

Barrow: 71981
Wigan: 81203
Castleford: 37525

Not any more they haven't, he's been banned from all RL for 8 years.

Who knows mate, depends on if we fit in with their 'strategic objectives' I guess. On the face of it this area should be easy cultivation for the RFL - a mature amateur infrastructure, no top class sport within 100 miles (e.g. SL, premiership football), no local competion for sponsors, a latent fanbase. The only thing missing is money - unfortunately thats the most important bit !

Where would such a club play, in order to satisfy the fans of both clubs?

The history of mergers in RL is pretty disastrous. I just can't see it working. I'd love to see a club representing Cumbria in Super League, but it has to be viable. That would need more than you suggest above. It needs a new stadium, a large and measurable fan base, and a man with an awful lot of money. As it stands, there is little evidence of any of this. Without any of this in place, it is a complete non-starter and likely to just go the way of the Celtic Crusaders. In fact, anecdotal evidence would suggest, that there is a great deal of hostility to any merger.

Therefore, if the RFL or anyone tries to force through such a club, with the offer of a guaranteed SL spot, it could backfire dramatically. There needs to a lot more than just sentiment behind the inclusion of any club into SL. A club needs to be rock solid all round, with a bullet proof bid. Can you seriously see any likelihood of such a strong Cumbria club emerging any time soon?

There isn't even one in the offing at the moment.

Why did the Cumbria teams in this years Amateur series have lads from Barrow in it then?

I'm sure those lads were most dissapointed they weren't playing for Lancashire.

Or probably not, because we're Cumbrian.

This raises its head every few years.
If Cumbria wanted a joint team in Super League they could do it easily.
Let them make their own decision rather than saying it must happen.

The teams are a long way apart, and even further in terms of rivalry. I don't think a merged team would be supported there any more than a Wakefield Tigers or a St. Wigan team.

And since when has Barrow not been in Cumbria!?!?!?
It might have a Lancaster post code but it is most definitely in Cumbria.

Course it is ever since it moved from Lancashire in 1974!!!!!!!!!!

'Few years ' ? , every 3months more like

A Super League club WOULD work in Cumbria but would have to be given the time to flourish, something im not sure the RFL are willing to allow in the current climate.

The club would have to be West Cumbrian in identity, Barrow's geographical location isolates it from the majority of the catchment area from which the Clubs potential support would be drawn from.

HOWEVER

This is unlikely to happen due to the vocal minority or 'diehards' who would rather watch any potential talent either lost to the game or to Super League in order to preserve the supposed 'heritage' of the game in West Cumbria with 2 clubs sentenced to eternal imprisonment in the dungeons of the Championship system.

Other factors to consider are two incompetent borough Council's with little or no vision for sport (or little else). Lack of the required financial backing from the private sector and the lack of courage for anyone from either club to rise above the rest and put their head on the block in the name of progress.

How many Cumbrian youngsters both past and present would have flourished had they been afforded the same facilities and coaching promising kids recieve along the M62 corridor? The next 10 years are pivotal to the future of RL in our area - participation is apparently decreasing as many people see no path in to the more developed eschelons of the game simply thinking 'whats the point?'

The arguments for and against will continue for the time being however any support and hope is rapidly being suffocated at the hands of frustration and apathy.

Sorry Geekay, I completely missed the irony in your first post!

It would seem at a fans forum tonight , that Barrow Raiders are £ 550,000 in debt

Would it wise to try and continue involving a Cumbria representative team against teams like France/Wales/Ireland/England Knights and see what sort of interest they could draw?
They're a rep team that has plenty of depth, so wouldn't have to shoe horn in Aussies or, in the case of ireland, two rugby union players that had literally just signed for Saints.