When push came to shove it turned out to be simply 'incumbency' though. Clearly those outside are no longer going to buy into that - they may have suspected before, but now they know.

So either SL effectively breaks away again or introduces a real possibilty of movement between different levels of the pro game. Neither is an easy choice, but it can't be put off any longer. The prentence is damaging and no longer tenable anyway.

Where has this ‘lack of competition from top to bottom’ myth come from? Since 2009 and the advent of franchising we have had 4 different grand finalists, and 3 different league leaders in 4 years. We have seen Hudds, Hull KR and Les Catalans finish top 4. We have seen 3 different teams finish bottom in those 4 years and 12 out of 15 clubs reach the play-offs.

For RL that’s pretty bloody competitive.

If they really want this mid season elite split at least do it in a sensible(ish) manor, this is my earlier idea drawn up

Two teams of 10

East League/West League
Based on the current highest 20 teams

[uWest league[/u

Warrington
Wigan
Saints
Salford
Widnes
Huddersfield
Catalans
Leigh
Halifax
Sheffield

[uEast League[/u

Leeds
Bradford
FC
KR
Castleford
Wakefield
London
Featherstone
Batley
Dewsbury

Play each other once.
9 games

Top 4 from each then go into playoff LEAGUE of 8 teams

Currently that would be

Wigan
Huddersfield
Warrington
Catalans
Leeds
Bradford
FC
KR

Points NOT carried over. Play each other home and away top 4 in semi final.
Magic weekend fixtures as 1v1 2v2 3v3 4v4
Games played 15+original 9 = 24 league matches 1 or 2 extra for semi/finalists
plus CC games
leaves time to fit in international fixtures in which most rep players will be in top league teams.

Bottom 12

Saints
Salford
Widnes
Leigh
Halifax
Sheffield
Castleford
Wakefield
London
Featherstone
Batley
Dewsbury

Play each other twice top 4 Championship trophy
Bottom relegated if there is anyone ready to take their place.

9 original games plus 22 league games, magic weekend = 32 games plus championship playoff and CC games
Extra games for extra revenue.
-------

Beauty of the idea is everyone is included top and bottom clubs playing each other.
Beginning of the season has to be intense to make sure you're in the top 4 but because of the lower teams also gives a chance with early season form not always being great.
Everyone has something to play for.

Money for first season is equally distributed which means some of the big boys have to take a hit.
2nd season money is distributed incrementally based on league positions.
------------

Personally i'd rather just a straight 2 leagues of 10 with a 2 up 2 down end of season. Just can't see the money coming in to support it.

I agree. In terms of who could win the league, we actually have a genuine choice this year where it would be hard to back a clear favourite from Wigan, Leeds and Warrington, while an outside chance run by Catalans and Huddersfield couldn't be ruled out. In any previous year, Saints would be in the mix too. To have 6 teams all with a very realistic prospect of winning the trophy is remarkably competitive compared to most competitions in most professional sports.

That's why I see this as a tail-wagging-dog exercise. The focus is not on what's best for the clubs at the top, or on how to add even more clubs to those potential champions. Instead it's on offering an easier ride to those at the bottom.

However, I also agree with "Mild Rover" when he says that the primary determinant of licensing turned out to be incumbency. I certainly think that the RFL should have grasped the nettle and booted out a club in the last licensing round in order to drive home the message that the criteria were to be enforced. However, that's an argument to enforce the licesing system, not an argument to abolish it in favour of something dreamed up by Nigel Wood after he'd had too many magic mushrooms in his pie.

The problem with licensing is the snap-shot nature of it. I said right from the very beginning the 3 year time-frame was pointless and counter-productive. Why look at how that club is doing at one point in one year and then again at another point in three years time? An awful lot can happen, positive and negative in the intervening period.

The structure the game should go for is the most obvious and simple one. The clubs in SL are in there until the f@ck it up, the clubs outside SL are outside SL until they can make a pretty convincing argument that they wont f@ck it up.

Right now, Salford, London and Cas are f’cking it up. Put them on a warning and tell that by mid-season next year, you have to make a pretty convincing argument to stay in SL. Tell Hull KR they have a few issues to sort out if they aren’t to fall in to this group, and Wakefield need to have a stadium by when they said they would or they fall in to this position.

Tell clubs outside SL that they need to come and show a plan where they are going to get 10k a week, get x amount from sponsors, have a decent quality facility and generally how they aren’t going to f’ck it up if they are promoted.

If that means we drop 5 clubs and promote 0, so be it. We will find a league structure which works with 9 sides. If it means we drop 0 and promote, Fax, Fev, Toulouse and Sheffield, so be it. We will find a league structure that works with 18 sides.

Roy Haggerty and Smokey - you do know we are in a reccession don't you ?

Meh ?

I'm with Tony Smith on this one.

A complete, radical overhaul of the system to the short-termist automatic P&R format will just encourage those clubs in danger to do what they were doing before. Pack their teams with journeymen, sod youth development and regard second from bottom as a successful season.

Whoever gets relegated will have to shed a large chunk of their playing squad, who will just get picked up by the promoted side who find themselves with four months to assemble a full-time squad good enough to finish second from bottom.

It's too early to write franchising off as a failure.

The global recession might be the reason the RFL haven't kicked someone out of SL. There is no money in the game.

Im not sure that its all that relevant to what i put.

Totally agree. To prove this point my club Castleford Tigers will forget all about moving to a new stadium. They will tart-up Wheldon Road a little bit and spend what little we have on a team to see us get out of the bottom 4 in SL.

and then still not reach 10k averages, still not be able to be sustainable spending the full cap, and still not start a season aiming to win SL rather than simply not finish in the top 4.

If that is Cas's plan for sustainability as an SL entity, a tarted up stadium which is falling to pieces and offputting to people, and spending a little bit more money with the aim of mid-table mediocrity then they shouldnt be in SL.

If cas want to be an SL club then they should be working towards looking like an SL club.

I think that's a bit of a non-sequitor. Certainly there's insufficient money in the game, but unless you're football or RU, then that applies to pretty much every sport out there. But that has nothing to do with whether London, Salford, Cas or Wakefield should have lost their licenses for failing to meet the relevant criteria.

These proposals seek to spread our limited jam even thinner across more clubs. Which would be fine if some of those additional clubs were in a position to use that as an investment and grow into big, competitive, self-sustaining clubs. But we all know that's not the case. Introduce any form of P&R, and the clubs will piddle the extra cash up against the wall for no benefit at all.

These proposals are mad.

Increase SL to 20 teams and introduce a draft (american style) from newly formed RL colleges.

be a laugh.

Leigh could have stayed at HP, it gave greater revenue streams but moving to LSV was the right thing to do because that was the standard the RFL rightly expected from its SL clubs. The move is hitting us to the tune of £150k pa and is crippling, the model in SL is brilliant but we ain't there

The same place that the myth of the Championship "moaning" is influencing either the RFL or SL.

As an aside I have noticed that someone said this on the first page:

Sensible enough and if they'd done it from day 1 like that and maybe if it'd been an unfashionable club with no recent major trophies in the cabinet, rather than Bradford, it could have worked out. But they didn't and I think the licensing 'brand' is too badly contaminated for a reboot. 'Picking' on a team for failing to develop their stadium or not having good enough revenue forecasts looks laughable when you've given newcos licences. It very possibly was the execution rather than the concept that was at fault, but it is unrealistic to expect people to forget what has happened or for them to have any trust in it going forward.
So either we try to turn the cliff-edge between SL and the Championship into more of a gentle slope (it is the fear/fact that relegation almost equals death that causes the irresponsibility, to a large extent), or we guarantee SL clubs their place and cut away the, frankly tiresome, BS that takes attention away from the sport itself. Because licensing as a process is very boring and it serves no real purpose now. The punishment for having a stadium is having a stadium, for not having much money it is being skint, for not developing juniors it is having little squad depth... putting structures to scare the poor into trying to be richer - if only it were that simple. It isn't that clubs can't see the benefits.
Kick out those that can't cut it - in an ideal world fair enough, but how many'd be left. 2 or 3 that are roughly self-sustaining? another 2 or 3 with really rich backers?

So it doesnt exist, fair enough.

The issue with 'franchising/licensing and some fans attitude towards it is simply one of communication. Its an easy enough one to overcome.

For me, the huge problem with the system as it is now is that it's a closed shop. Whether the current debate is a case of the tail wagging the dog or not there has to be a pathway for Champ, Champ 1 and new clubs to establish themselves and progress to the appropriate level in the league structure. I like the sound of Option 3 because it provides that pathway in a straightforward manner and without any "cliffs" - if a club makes it to the top 8 one season but can't hack it, it's no big deal to play in the next tier and slowly build up to a position of being able to challenge the top clubs again. Some clubs will do it, some won't - that's the way of professional sport - but all clubs have to have the chance otherwise there's nothing to play for and RL at lower levels (which are vital for the game) will largely disappear (or at least not progress as seems to be the case now).
The main concern is the sharing out of limited money. Easy - establish minimum standards by distributing it according to a formula that takes in to account;
1- league position
2 - average home attendance
3 - youth and player development
4 - community work
A nice new stadium isn't the be all and end all. If Cas can get 10000+ at WR irrespective of the state of the bogs that's what matters. Fans will vote with their feet - clubs will have to do whatever is needed or they won't get the cash and they will sink to lower, more appropriate level.

Thats all in your opinion Smokey. At present SL is a 14 team comp. Ask any fan of the british game if Cas Tigers are one of the best 13 clubs in England and worthy of a place in the elite - most will say yes they are. We are in SL on merit - the same as Salford and Widnes and Wakey.

Widnes CEO urges RFL to stick with current structure :- www.loverugbyleague.com/news_119 ... cture.html We now know how Widnes and Warrington will vote.

Widnes CEO urges RFL to stick with current structure :- www.loverugbyleague.com/news_119 ... cture.html We now know how Widnes and Warrington will vote.

Clubs whose only aim is to not quite be the worst club in SL shouldn’t be in SL, structuring the game so that these clubs can be in SL holds back the game.
How much merit really is there in Cas being one of the best 13 pro clubs in Britain when there are only 13 pro clubs in Britain? Right now there is as much merit in Cas’ place in SL as there is in being the worlds tallest dwarf.

Can the clubs vote for the current structure to remain the same or are the 3 option mentioned the only options being considered?

Gary Hetherington indicated that was the case in an interview, I saw, yep.

If they do though, it needs an end to this 3 year cycle of assessments nonsense and a [useparate[/u system needs to be put in place for the semi-pro game. Like the NRL with the NSW and Queensland competitions, perhaps.