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Sad thing. The American football league game in Spurs ground tomorrow will almost certainly have a bigger crowd.
I actually like NFL. But we have the better product in my opinion. Shows the scale of the failure insular, 'keep it the M62 corridor mentality has caused us. Those who love our game the most are also its biggest enemy.
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I suppose we need to account for neutral supporters who'd bought tickets for the planned RLWC and were (probably) going to give the GF a miss this year regardless of the finalists.
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| Quote ="Bal"Sad thing. The American football league game in Spurs ground tomorrow will almost certainly have a bigger crowd.
I actually like NFL. But we have the better product in my opinion. Shows the scale of the failure insular, 'keep it the M62 corridor mentality has caused us. Those who love our game the most are also its biggest enemy.'"
The difference is the nfl's marketing budget just in London is probably ten fold of every SL club combined marketing budget.
I don't even watch nfl but have noticed just how much content sky show and it clearly is very popular here. Outside the games sky show all kinds of shoulder programming and when you look at the production values NFL content it just looks all high end.
It looks like a premium product and the ticket prices for these UK games are premium prices but they have clearly tapped into a fanbase who have disposable income to not only buy tickets but the nfl make a killing on merchandise sales at these games.
I've seen the fans after games on tubes and trains and you see people with bags of merchandise and that stuff isn't cheap at all. |
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Rugby League is in the doldrums, and Rimmer is not the Leader to get us out of them.
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| Quote ="Cokey"Rugby League is in the doldrums, and Rimmer is not the Leader to get us out of them.'"
Not if your a Saints fan were feking flying high |
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There was somewhere around 45000 in attendance
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45k attendance. So that means no SL grand final has ever been played in a stadium in front of that many empty seats (approx. 30k) People are voting with their feet. The game is on its backside
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| Quote ="RagingBull"45k attendance. So that means no SL grand final has ever been played in a stadium in front of that many empty seats (approx. 30k) People are voting with their feet. The game is on its backside'"
Why do you want to think like that?
Covid fears leaves not only people not buying tickets to live events it leads to 20% of people who have bought tickets in advance not taking them up . Went to a theatre performance that was sold out but there were lots or empty seats, the ushers gave me the 20% figure and explained these people don't want to take their seats due to Covid risks ....
People forget that Covid infections have not gone away, there are around 30,000 a day in the here and now. |
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| Quote ="RagingBull"45k attendance. So that means no SL grand final has ever been played in a stadium in front of that many empty seats (approx. 30k) People are voting with their feet. The game is on its backside'"
Seriously only a f3ckwit could come to that conclusion when everyone knows the reason for the lower than usual crowd. |
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| Quote ="shinymcshine"There was somewhere around 45000 in attendance'"
Not surprising with an overseas club in there and Covid still running rampant..........
If Wigan had been the opposition and Covid extinct then whose to say the crowd would not be just as as good as past crowds? |
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Covid doesn't seem to be affecting football crowds, my football team Hartlepool United are getting their best home attendances for years, nearly 6K each game.
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| Quote ="Donnyman"Why do you want to think like that?'"
Brentford, my local club when I lived in London, have played 3 home games in the Premiership this year.....the stadium holds 17,250 fans and has been 96% full for all three games.
Another ex-Landlord of the Broncos, Harlequins Rugby Union have played 2 Gallagher Premiership games and both games have been at 98% capacity.
Hey. I get it. Covid is a scary beast and it is very much still around, but it only seems to be hitting Rugby League Crowd. No doubt, once the 2022 season starts attendances will bounce, but if they don't, what excuse other than the game is in strife will you come up with? Catalan and Toulouse ate my homework? 
What we need is more pit village sides and less of this expansion malarkey. Featherstone v Bradford is what the public want to see....not some French Team with a higher average attendance than Featherstone and Bradford combined.....  |
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| Quote ="Budgiezilla"Covid doesn't seem to be affecting football crowds, my football team Hartlepool United are getting their best home attendances for years, nearly 6K each game.'"
Maybe the ageing RL fan base is the reason for it effecting RL matches. The sport needs younger fans. |
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| Quote ="kobashi"Maybe the ageing RL fan base is the reason for it effecting RL matches. The sport needs younger fans.'"
101%!
Rugby League as a sport needs to spend 10 times on Marketing itself in 2022 to just "tread water"....people have had 2 years to find something else to do and we need to get the Fans back....
I see "event" marketing a being Key in the next few years.... |
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| Quote ="orangeman"101%!
Rugby League as a sport needs to spend 10 times on Marketing itself in 2022 to just "tread water"...'"
Blimey Izmir? You said on TRL "[iAs I run and coach an amateur club and small League I fully understand the importance of the local game[/i". Are you also a self declared marketing expert as well?? Is there no end to your talents??  |
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Quote '" Quote ="orangeman"101%!
Rugby League as a sport needs to spend 10 times on Marketing itself in 2022 to just "tread water"....people have had 2 years to find something else to do and we need to get the Fans back....
I see "event" marketing a being Key in the next few years....'"
So what are the key areas that will guarantee a return on investment ?
Many other sports have had 'events' which attract a good one off number, but doesn't turn into sustainable growth (e.g. Saracens RU games at Wembley).
What should Wigan or Saints be doing to encourage growth outside their dormitory areas - if these two can't get 15k crowds week in week out then there's little hope for the rest.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... gby-league |
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Quote '" Quote ="orangeman"101%!
Rugby League as a sport needs to spend 10 times on Marketing itself in 2022 to just "tread water"....people have had 2 years to find something else to do and we need to get the Fans back....
I see "event" marketing a being Key in the next few years....'"
So what are the key areas that will guarantee a return on investment ?
Many other sports have had 'events' which attract a good one off number, but doesn't turn into sustainable growth (e.g. Saracens RU games at Wembley).
What should Wigan or Saints be doing to encourage growth outside their dormitory areas - if these two can't get 15k crowds week in week out then there's little hope for the rest.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... gby-league | |
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| Quote ="Donnyman"Why do you want to think like that?
Covid fears leaves not only people not buying tickets to live events it leads to 20% of people who have bought tickets in advance not taking them up . Went to a theatre performance that was sold out but there were lots or empty seats, the ushers gave me the 20% figure and explained these people don't want to take their seats due to Covid risks ....
People forget that Covid infections have not gone away, there are around 30,000 a day in the here and now.'"
Covid fear must only be in RL fans then. Football stadiums are sold out, boxing events sold out. Darts events sold out. Cricket events sold out. Even the NFL games in London are sold out.
Using Covid as an excuse is laughable. |
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| Quote ="Donnyman"Blimey Izmir? You said on TRL "[iAs I run and coach an amateur club and small League I fully understand the importance of the local game[/i". Are you also a self declared marketing expert as well?? Is there no end to your talents??
'"
I used to be a self declared marketing expert.....then I went to university....twice....and am now a "doctor" in the field. If you stop searching for imaginary friends, you'll see that 90% of my posts are in the broncos boards and are bemoaning the lack of anything in that area.....you may like to check out the attendance records if the central pulse netball team in NZ.....they seem to have gone from 500 to 2,500.....…...I've never run a small RL club, but I do also sponsor 2 RL clubs youth teams....in Petone and in Kapiti.
Stop being a self appointed moderator parky.....you look foolish. |
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| Quote ="RagingBull"Covid fear must only be in RL fans then. Football stadiums are sold out, boxing events sold out. Darts events sold out. Cricket events sold out. Even the NFL games in London are sold out.
Using Covid as an excuse is laughable.'"
And all them sports have a bigger younger demographic going to live events. I am not saying that's the sole reason for poor live gates in Super League but it cannot be ignored. The sport desperately needs to attract younger fans. |
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Covid hesitancy is an issue, and not just for Rugby League. Plenty of the events that are selling out have an audience that is far bigger than their stadium capacities. They are selling out, but they are doing so slower than normal. I've been to every Premier League game at Anfield this season, and they've obviously all been sold out, but tickets have been far easier to come by than they usually are. There was a handful still available for Man City at home - the biggest fixture of recent seasons - on the club website on the morning of the game last Sunday. In normal circumstances that is unheard of. I follow the PDC on Twitter and they were promoting "tickets for tonight still available" throughout the World Grand Prix over the last week. They would normally be sold weeks ago. I've been told by a union fan that the RFU have put tickets for England V Australia and South Africa on general sale, when they could normally fill Twickenham twice over for those games selling to members only. I'm sure the NFL in London will be sold out today, but again, those games always sell out and it may well have been easier than normal to get tickets. I realise the NFL signed a deal with Spurs long before Covid, but it is still worth pointing out that the capacity is over 20,000 less than Wembley where the games have always been before.
Those things all still sell out eventually because for every regular atendee who chooses not to, there's someone else waiting in the wings to pick up the remaining tickets. Rugby League obviously doesn't have that so the attendances drop. Given the situation and the teams playing - one who would obviously bring few fans, and another whose fans have seen it won plenty of times before - I actually thought 45,000 was decent. I expected less than 40,000. If it had been Wires V Hull for example, with decent sized fan bases who have yet to see a Grand Final win, you could add 20,000 to that as an absolute minimum and there's nothing to worry about.
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Quote ="shinymcshine"So what are the key areas that will guarantee a return on investment ?
Many other sports have had 'events' which attract a good one off number, but doesn't turn into sustainable growth (e.g. Saracens RU games at Wembley).
What should Wigan or Saints be doing to encourage growth outside their dormitory areas - if these two can't get 15k crowds week in week out then there's little hope for the rest.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... gby-league'"
You're bang right...crowds across the top teams are worrying. People point to catalan as the reason the crowd was down last night, but there were huge swathes of empty seats in the saints end...who took no more than 15-20k absolute max for a final  ....that's awful.
The biggest challenge RL has is something I read a few weeks ago. Only 4% of the population are within an area with a SL side! Is it any wonder we struggle to attract broadcasting and commercial sponsorship with those figures? No wonder we're seen as a marginalised minority sport.
SL needs another breakaway. Another revolution IMO to make the game exciting / appeal to new fans in wider areas and bring in the commercial revenues it desperately needs. The game needs city and regional clubs at the top level if its to survive. Personally, i would bring some teams up from big population areas and also rebrand some of our clubs to represent wider areas.
ie/ you could quickly get to a SL of the following from existing clubs which would be much more commercially viable, exciting and bring in much wider interest;
Leeds Rhinos
Catalan Dragons
Toulouse Olympic
London Broncos
Newcastle Thunder ([iRenamed Tyne Thunder to appeal to the whole area)[/i
Liverpool Saints ([iStill playing in St Helens..still same fanbase, but a subtle rename and 2-3 big games in liverpool[/i)
Manchester Fords ([iSalford, same premise as St Helens[/i)
Then expand existing big clubs like Hull, Wigan and Warrington to represent wider areas;
Wigan Lancashire or Lancashire Warriors
Cheshire Wire
Hull East Yorkshire etc.
....Again still in existing League towns but appealing to wider areas
Yes the traditionalists would moan for a bit, but they'd learn to sap it up. If they don't we'd maybe lose 20% of fans max, for huge opportunities to bring in new fans and much improved commercial revenues.
Put that SL to sky/ BT or any other broadcaster and they'd be prepared to pay twice as much for it, as would any other sponsor. Get the money into the game and get the product back to the level it was 20 years ago and we'll start creating events which bring the fans back and new fans into the game. |
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Quote ="shinymcshine"So what are the key areas that will guarantee a return on investment ?
Many other sports have had 'events' which attract a good one off number, but doesn't turn into sustainable growth (e.g. Saracens RU games at Wembley).
What should Wigan or Saints be doing to encourage growth outside their dormitory areas - if these two can't get 15k crowds week in week out then there's little hope for the rest.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... gby-league'"
You're bang right...crowds across the top teams are worrying. People point to catalan as the reason the crowd was down last night, but there were huge swathes of empty seats in the saints end...who took no more than 15-20k absolute max for a final ....that's awful.
The biggest challenge RL has is something I read a few weeks ago. Only 4% of the population are within an area with a SL side! Is it any wonder we struggle to attract broadcasting and commercial sponsorship with those figures? No wonder we're seen as a marginalised minority sport.
SL needs another breakaway. Another revolution IMO to make the game exciting / appeal to new fans in wider areas and bring in the commercial revenues it desperately needs. The game needs city and regional clubs at the top level if its to survive. Personally, i would bring some teams up from big population areas and also rebrand some of our clubs to represent wider areas.
ie/ you could quickly get to a SL of the following from existing clubs which would be much more commercially viable, exciting and bring in much wider interest;
Leeds Rhinos
Catalan Dragons
Toulouse Olympic
London Broncos
Newcastle Thunder ([iRenamed Tyne Thunder to appeal to the whole area)[/i
Liverpool Saints ([iStill playing in St Helens..still same fanbase, but a subtle rename and 2-3 big games in liverpool[/i)
Manchester Fords ([iSalford, same premise as St Helens[/i)
Then expand existing big clubs like Hull, Wigan and Warrington to represent wider areas;
Wigan Lancashire or Lancashire Warriors
Cheshire Wire
Hull East Yorkshire etc.
....Again still in existing League towns but appealing to wider areas
Yes the traditionalists would moan for a bit, but they'd learn to sap it up. If they don't we'd maybe lose 20% of fans max, for huge opportunities to bring in new fans and much improved commercial revenues.
Put that SL to sky/ BT or any other broadcaster and they'd be prepared to pay twice as much for it, as would any other sponsor. Get the money into the game and get the product back to the level it was 20 years ago and we'll start creating events which bring the fans back and new fans into the game. | |
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That wouldn't work at all, and would be ridiculous. Before you say it works in other sports, yes, it has done in cricket for example where the whole point was to attract new fans to an already very well known and popular sport but which doesn't really have the passionate fan bases Rugby League clubs have. If cricketing traditionalists ignored The 100 it made no difference as it wasn't designed for them anyway.
Look at the opposition in Hull to the attempted rebrand of Hull City to Hull Tigers (with Tigers already being their nickname anyway), and the opposition in Cardiff to the switch from blue to red of Cardiff City's kit despite it being the colour of the country they are the capital of. There's a few London football clubs who definitely wish their founders had included "London" in their name over 100 years ago because that would be a selling point for them globally now. West Ham have tried to shoehorn London into their branding at every opportunity over the last ten years, and Chelsea are showing signs of doing the same now. They can't just rename the clubs though, no matter how much the owners probably wish they could, because the fans wouldn't have it. Swinton fans wouldn't either.
Tradition matters. Including them in the name of clubs they already have no interest in won't make people in Liverpool and Manchester start supporting Saints or Salford. Cheapening the existing identity will 100% cost you existing fans though.
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| Quote ="Dropkick Murphy"That wouldn't work at all, and would be ridiculous. Before you say it works in other sports, yes, it has done in cricket for example where the whole point was to attract new fans to an already very well known and popular sport but which doesn't really have the passionate fan bases Rugby League clubs have. If cricketing traditionalists ignored The 100 it made no difference as it wasn't designed for them anyway.
Look at the opposition in Hull to the attempted rebrand of Hull City to Hull Tigers (with Tigers already being their nickname anyway), and the opposition in Cardiff to the switch from blue to red of Cardiff City's kit despite it being the colour of the country they are the capital of. Tradition matters. Including them in the name of clubs they already have no interest in won't make people in Liverpool and Manchester start supporting Saints or Salford. Cheapening the existing identity will 100% cost you existing fans though.'"
It might....but if you did it regardless, how many would you really lose....people would come round to it, would still be their club. You're risking losing perhaps a 1/4 who would be too pigheaded and parochial not to go. The rest would come around to it and you'd open so many doors in terms of new fans and commercial revenues into the sport.
Do nothing and the game is probably dead and heading towards the top clubs merging back into union within ten years anyway! |
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And we're back to people marshalling ists of phantom teams with phantom fans.
Last night's crowd was ok. I don't think Saints took many fewer than normal. Perhaps a few less neutrals. Nothing that can't be focussed on but likewise nothing to set your hair no fire about either.
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Quote ="RagingBull"Covid fear must only be in RL fans then. Football stadiums are sold out, boxing events sold out. Darts events sold out. Cricket events sold out. Even the NFL games in London are sold out.
Using Covid as an excuse is laughable.'"
even the world conker championship got a great turn out
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-n ... e-58862596 |
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Quote ="RagingBull"Covid fear must only be in RL fans then. Football stadiums are sold out, boxing events sold out. Darts events sold out. Cricket events sold out. Even the NFL games in London are sold out.
Using Covid as an excuse is laughable.'"
even the world conker championship got a great turn out
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-n ... e-58862596 | |
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....that's awful.
