Hear Hear. I thought was just me who gets tired of Gutter's drivel

Hear Hear. I thought was just me who gets tired of Gutter's drivel

Hear hear. Thought to was must me that is bored of Gutter's drivel. (And repeated on most threads)

Hear hear. Thought to was must me that is bored of Gutter's drivel. (And repeated on most threads)

X2

What with his 52 posts and your 83, I'll be getting a paranoia complex next.....although the reluctance of certain posters to put me on ignore but to instead whine like little girls is quite amusing, it adds little to the debate, which in this instance, is in regards to the "hybrid" sponsorship naming rights of SL with some cash and some connection cash being the make up. Any thoughts on that, or are you just going to whine like little girls some more?

He'll be heading the same way as Dally m and the other trolls before him eventually.

so what did you mean by your comment on RFL pushing out good news and hiding bad news? What are you suggesting they should do differently, put more focus on bad news and less on good news? What do you do for a living again other than stuff envelopes for a mail out?

I think Gutter speaks a lot of sense, though I don't agree with his Salford bashing. It's only those in cloud cuckooland who think British RL is thriving at pro/semi-pro levels. Fact: It is not. It takes people from OUTSIDE the game to see the real issues.

Not seeing anybody on here who has said the game is "thriving". Nor people saying the RFL is amazing or Nigel Wood is fantastic. But because some of us don't bash the game in every single post on every thread we comment on we must "think that the game is in brilliant condition". Or alternatively we know the game's issues but some people on here go so OTT in their bashing of the sport (and on a repeated regular basis) that we level it up with a bit of balance.

Presumably because some of the payment to clubs will be based on the number of their supporters that sign up, so a club with 7,000 supporters is likely to generate more revenue than a club with 3,000 supporters.

Be interested to know what Catalans think of this deal.

Spot on. Under no illusions that the game is struggling and some decision I'm strongly against. But its pathetic how some just post negative posts ALL the time even when the RFL do something good such as the outstanding WC we still see posts such as "all tickets were a fiver" when in fact a tiny tiny percentage may have been £5. They also fail to mention other sports do the same. They just lose all credibility when they lost constant dross

Fans in the UK might be interested

I am active in 1 thread on the VT currently, in what you deem as a negative way. This one, which is discussing the "hybrid" naming rights deal and in which I have questioned the RFL's ability to put together decent deals, but has now also been drifted (by others) to include my assertion that the PR department at the RFL couldn't find their with both hands at the same time as well as to include some whining from a handful of posters unhappy that anyone dares to question the direction the sport is being led.
The RFL's desire to grab headlines and pat themselves on the back when attendances go up is to be applauded, but don't dare ask what they are doing 12 months later when the attendances have dropped back down? Don't question the exact nature of this naming tights deal which is, at the very best (if you want to believe its 750k cash a year go ahead) close to 40% down on the last one we got paid for. Don't ever be seen to question anything.....it's all ing wonderful





I will enjoy reading the post where I said all tickets were a fiver.......when you find it. I have also posted that other sports have given away freebies as well as discounted tickets, there is nothing wrong with it and is seen as a good way to attract fans....problem is, when Saracens do it at Wembley they get 80,000+, the RFL on the other hand get somewhat less.

So, the whining from the handful, which has taken control of this thread, decries me as being negative in every post and all over the VT, when in fact, I am in 1 thread and being subjective, or maybe objective as to the abilities of the RFL to run the game.

And yet some say I cause thread drifts



Agree regarding the bigger clubs getting a bigger cheque from the "connections" side of this deal.......and I am also interested what Catalans think of this.......though I doubt Knock down Nigel and his buddies will ever announce the mechanics in full...it's not positive news, so rather than try and make it better by working hard, they spin it and continue to steal a wage. IMHO that is.

......

Seen as you like to ask others "find the post where I said this" then perhaps you'd like to find the post where I'm saying people can't dare question the RFL or sport in general.

I asked you why RFL not announcing bad news like they do good news is an issue for you. Why when they come out in the press and big up the deals they make (even if they don't prove to be good in the end) does this process seem to offend you so much?

You seemed perplexed that they came out and tried justifying and bigging up deals they've made in press releases. What exactly would you have wanted them to say about these deals to the press upon the announcements of them?

By all means question things.......but don't get your knickers in a twist when you get asked questions back. It's as if "Gutters has spoken, thou shall not question his superior knowledge." I've asked some questions but you've ignored the things asked and replied to me telling me details of this new sponsorship deal and how poor it is......Yet I've not asked you about the inner workings of this deal.

Yourself (and others previously) as you write above say "what are the RFL doing when the attendances dropped down?" Your opinion as seen a few pages back is that they went into hiding and hoped it would go away. This is based on that they didn't come out and report it in the same style as the 2012 raises.

I question why not highlighting is apparent proof that they're "hoping it'll go away." Anybody in their right mind wouldn't highlight it but that doesn't mean they don't know about it, aren't concerned about it, looking into reasons for it, looking to fix it. That you've not read about it in a paper or website doesn't mean they're not trying to tackle it, but that going to the press and pointing out drops in attendance doesn't help the sport (especially at the time of needing a new sponsor). Hell maybe they are ignoring in the blind hope that'll things will pick up, I don't know......but neither do you, especially based on some poor logic (inferior media headlines compared to positive 2012 news).

Finally, the penny drops



Bottom line here is it has taken the RFL 3 Years to replace Engage with a new naming sponsor who is prepared to put up some cash.....40% less than Engage if you believe that this is a straight 750k a year deal, considerable less if you accept that it is a "hybrid" deal that will benefit some clubs more than others, including Catalans.

As for the attendances of SL and how they are handled by the press office, I believe that the RFL opened the door when they bigged themselves up as being in charge of an ever increasingly bigger competition when in fact, the hike had little to do with their expertise. As such, when it drops, they are fair game to be ridiculed and questioned...especially as it dropped to a 2009 level!
St Helens and Salford moving into new stadiums boosted the attendances in 2012 and rather than discuss how they'd ed up with the stobart deal and that it looked like they had no sponsor lined up for 2013, they decided to jump on the good news generated with little if any input from them.

The RFL at nearly every turn in recent years have made bad decisions. No, I don't expect them to publicise these ups.....I expect them to sort out the mess of their making and whilst doing so, I don't expect them to jump on any good news story related to the game and wrap it up in a "aren't we at the RFL clever' blanket. I know it's hard for someone of Nigel's stature to keep his head down and get on with it, but that's exactly what needs doing.

I know.....you've said.....I've never asked.



So it isn't that they don't report bad news, it's that they report good news in a way that makes the game sound well run......the b#*@^rds!!! Should they praise raises on pure dumb luck and that they had no involvement........I can see the new potential sponsors knocking down the door to get involved.




Haven't the RFL been pushing teams to improve grounds, HKR's new stand should see improved figures there.



So it is that they don't come out and point out bad news after all???



You just asked them to come out and discuss how they loved up the Stobart deal.



Are they not? They gave away the sponsorship for nothing in 2012, they had no main sponsor in 2013, they now have a sponsor for 2014 that is paying at least some money. No it's not near the Engage deal but they're going to have to build back up to that over time. You don't go from £1m+ > to giving it away > to none > back to £1m+. It's a step in the right direction at least, we'd all love it if it were a bigger, massive step but realistically that was always going to be very unlikely.



I hope they do jump on any good news story. We aren't exactly overloaded with them and the media ain't queuing up to fill their sport section about us.



Guys/managers/bosses/owners in business in 'taking the praise' shocker.......never known that happen before in any form of business....sporting and none sporting.

I know you didn't, but my statement is totally relevant to the thread topic.....which you're really keen to ignore now it's been seen to be a deal that really isn't all that good........you'd much rather discuss my supposed negativity and concerns as to the RFL being able to do their job.

The thread is about the 2013 Title Sponsors for the Superleague. If you want to discuss my opinion on the RFL's ability to ride shotgun on good news not of their making, but instead to shirk their actual responsibilities in actually making the good news, then fine, start a thread on that topic and I can join in without falsely being accused of thread drifts, agenda setting or secret missions on behalf of the dark side....

Has it been seen? How? Have the full details been leaked? Or just a few twitter grumbles and people on here like yourself telling us the full details of a deal you don't actually know the details about. You've guessed, you might be wrong you might be right. It could be better it could even be worst.



It is about the 2014 title sponsor.....and seen as exact details weren't divulged, people like yourself complained about the tight-lipped RFL and how they differ between good and bad news. Hence we still are on topic.....and you actually started it, I just picked you up on it.

So you actually started this "drift", which isn't actually a drift at all because it still totally has to do with sponsorship but instead of guessing details it's about how they've reported them in the media.

If this had turned into a debate of referee standards or who should be in the England team then that would be a thread drift.

But well done, avoid the questions asked because you have no good answer to them and then go on the offensive and blame me for "drifting" a thread that is still on topic. For someone who has a go at the RFL for "hiding and hoping it'll go away" and not admitting when they've loved up, you've done exactly that here.

Can you two stop pulling hair and get back to the topic?

So what do you think of the branding and will we see a new SL logo?

When people are comparing the deal with First Utilities with engage, they do realise they're comparing two completely different deals? One was for title sponsorship, the other was for everything (refs, post pads, shirt sleeves, etc). There's still money to come in yet.

Engage paid more but engage got more. We'll see what else comes out in the next few weeks. But I'd rather wait in curiosity than wait in hope of failure to prove my negative self right for some sad way of self satisfaction.

Cant see why people are knocking the deal, other than the fact that numbers haven't been made public.
Whichever direction you look at this, it is a marked improvement on where we have been for 3 years.

Lets hope that it works well for the new sponsor and that we can progress further next time around.

The REAL challange is whether the deal provides what both the sponsor and SL want out of it.
For one I don't care who sponsors SL, because my interest in SL and F.Ut is minimal and that will apply to an awful lot of people in this country.
It may work for the benefit of both organisations and good if it does.
History, and past experiences, show certain things happen which benefit neither side. For this to work to mutual benefit then both SL and F.Ut will need to implement a hard work ethic to reap the expected rewards. That I know is anathema to some, just take and hope.

How futile are the endless exchanges on here where no one gains or gives any ground?! I still don't get how you can be a rsed or have the time even?!

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

The game we all love starts in a few weeks time, let's all just go and enjoy