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| A couple of years ago, it was just a handful of players. The first time I really recall seeing it was McIlorum throwing the ball at a prone tackler to win a penalty in the 2015 Grand Final.
Gradually, it's started spiralling. It culminated I believe last year, when Josh Jones threw the ball forward into a prone marker to win a penalty. This led to a directive from the RFL that such play would be penalised. This has now been forgotten seemingly.
One big problem we have is that we cannot accept that this is now something that happens with all teams. When our team is accused, we leap to their defence. This thread is a case in point. St Helens and Wakefield have been called out on this thread and before long fans leap to their defence.
I didn't see the Wakefield game, so I can't comment. I'm a Saints fan. Dom Peyroux deliberately stepped over the marker and threw the ball onto a marker to win a penalty on Thursday. We benefited by receiving a penalty, but I didn't like seeing it at all.
To get around this problem, we need to accept that this isn't just a couple of players. We shouldn't be blinkered enough to think that our team is above it.
It's systemic. Until we accept that, the problem won't be solved.
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| I would like to see the refs judge it and make a call in a different way. If the attacker dominates in the tackle the ref calls dominate the player is rewarded and can step forward and play the ball forward of the grounded tackler, if the tackler is still in the way then naturally a penalty.
The other is if the attacker is dominated in the tackle the ref calls surrender then the player concedes and has to step back and play behind the grounded tackler.
If the ref calls dominate because the attacker has got momentum just before the floppers join the affray, then the judgement of the defenders would be at a greater risk of conceded a penalty once the ref has made that call in a similar way to the "held call".
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| Quote ="SRV"One big problem we have is that we cannot accept that this is now something that happens with all teams. When our team is accused, we leap to their defence. This thread is a case in point. St Helens and Wakefield have been called out on this thread and before long fans leap to their defence'"
I absolutely did not leap to Trinity's defence; I have said repeatedly on many threads about the wild west that the ruck has become, that *all* coaches and lots of players are guilty of exploiting the ever-changing interpretation of the rules to great effect - such that plenty of games become almost unwatchable to anyone who enjoys the game played properly, and incomprehensible to a casual viewer.
For clarity - I'd penalise Danny Brough as readily as I'd penalise anyone else who uses the grubby tactic of drawing a penalty by deliberately throwing the ball at a defender who isn't impeding him; equally, I'd penalise any player who deliberately impedes the ptb.
In short, apply the rules as written to *all* situations in *all* games, and the problem fairly quickly disappears; it's simple economics - if the cost outweighs the potential benefits, behaviour will change.
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| Quote ="bren2k"I absolutely did not leap to Trinity's defence; I have said repeatedly on many threads about the wild west that the ruck has become, that *all* coaches and lots of players are guilty of exploiting the ever-changing interpretation of the rules to great effect - such that plenty of games become almost unwatchable to anyone who enjoys the game played properly, and incomprehensible to a casual viewer.
For clarity - I'd penalise Danny Brough as readily as I'd penalise anyone else who uses the grubby tactic of drawing a penalty by deliberately throwing the ball at a defender who isn't impeding him; equally, I'd penalise any player who deliberately impedes the ptb.
In short, apply the rules as written to *all* situations in *all* games, and the problem fairly quickly disappears; it's simple economics - if the cost outweighs the potential benefits, behaviour will change.'"
I'm starting to doubt the referees even know the rules, SL has become unwatchable with the muppets in the middle.
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| The problem is that RL has become overly technical. This has been gradually building the last 20 years through the need to 'innovate'.
It would be very brave, but maybe drop some of these overly technical aspects and allow the refs to show a bit more judgement themselves instead of the strict structure we have now.
Some may cry out about rubbish refs, and you may be right, but are they rubbish because all they now do is follow overly technical rules to the letter without just using a bit of common sense?
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| Quote ="infamous grouse"I think the refs should use more discretion
If the defender is attempting to clear the ruck area it's no penalty, if he is making no attempt then penalise him.
Similarly if the acting half back deliberately hits the defender with the ball it's no penalty.
In yesterday's HKR v Catalan game, Tompkins deliberately passed the ball so it hit a retreating HKR player, it wasn't accidental, it was so blatant it was almost a forward pass.'"
The easiest thing to do is to have a zero tolerance approach right or wrong. Were you hit by the ball y/n and were you in an ofside position? You could always impose a tap restart and set of six rather than a full penalty if we thought that the full penalty was too harsh. Putting the responsibility on the defenders would call for a change in behaviour. Too often the attacking team is hindered by having to straddle a prone body and the ref shouts play on.
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| This is getting farcical now. Can't and shouldn't be left til end of the season to resolve it.
Aside from anything else, the game as a spectacle is really suffering.
It's dead simple as far as I am concerned. If the defending player makes an attempt to move but is trapped or can't move, play on. If the player just lies there and it's a general obstruction, penalty. If there is an attempt by the attacker to cheat the rule (ie diving, deliberately placing the ball over the defender, penalty the other way.
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| Quote ="Wirefan"This is getting farcical now. Can't and shouldn't be left til end of the season to resolve it.
Aside from anything else, the game as a spectacle is really suffering.
It's dead simple as far as I am concerned. If the defending player makes an attempt to move but is trapped or can't move, play on. If the player just lies there and it's a general obstruction, penalty. If there is an attempt by the attacker to cheat the rule (ie diving, deliberately placing the ball over the defender, penalty the other way.'"
The Hull coach has said that there is a coaches meeting on May 1st where this ruck situation will be addressed. The ruck penalties in the Catalans v Castleford match ruined my enjoyment of the match particularly as I watch all NRL matches where the problem has been resolved.
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| Quote ="Freddie Miller."The Hull coach has said that there is a coaches meeting on May 1st where this ruck situation will be addressed. The ruck penalties in the Catalans v Castleford match ruined my enjoyment of the match particularly as I watch all NRL matches where the problem has been resolved.'"
James Child set precedent yesterday by giving Catalan a penalty for not even attempting to play the ball, just hoofing it backwards 5 yards into a Cas player...What should have been a Cas penalty resulted in a Catalan penalty then try from the tap.
Once that happen, Cas had had enough so did what every team they've played this season has done which resulted in everyone on Twitter thinking Shenton is the 2nd coming of Satan himself....Then Catalan went on to do the same thing a further 3 times
Child should be dropped for causing all of that in yesterdays game and players doing it need to be straight up sin binned.
Powell after the game pretty much said if they cheat we'll cheat:
Quote “The amount of cheating in games is growing. Playing the ball into players on the floor, playing it at 100 miles an hour and we’re cheating to combat the cheating.
“It’s worse than football at the moment. I just think it’s disgraceful, they have to get a grip of it because I thought it was a shambles.
“I thought it was appalling. We’re saying if that’s the way it is we’re not going to get hurt by it all the time, we’ll do it ourselves.
“It has to be stamped out. They have to do something about it and the Rugby League have to act pretty quickly, I think.”'"
Refs that actually know the rules and then enforce them correctly would be a start.
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| To be honest I thought the ploy of passing the ball at a prostrate defender had been dealt with. I remember Danny Houghton doing it at Wakey either last season or the one before. There was some sort of instruction passed down to the officials to stamp it out & it seemed to stop, obviously not permanently.
Just penalise the next bloke who does it, it'll soon stop.
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| I can just see Powell's comments about cheating to "combat" cheating backfiring, and Cas'll end up being the first team to be penalised for it.
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| Quote ="Wirefan"This is getting farcical now. Can't and shouldn't be left til end of the season to resolve it.
Aside from anything else, the game as a spectacle is really suffering.
It's dead simple as far as I am concerned. If the defending player makes an attempt to move but is trapped or can't move, play on. If the player just lies there and it's a general obstruction, penalty. If there is an attempt by the attacker to cheat the rule (ie diving, deliberately placing the ball over the defender, penalty the other way.'"
The RFL has addressed it with immediate effect
“The following additions / amendments to 2019 referee policy have been introduced with immediate effect:
Placing the ball on the defender lying on the ground – It is the responsibility of the player playing the ball to place the ball on the ground at their feet. If necessary the player should step backwards to ensure this can be done. OUTCOME – If the ball is placed on the tackler, this will be ruled a knock-on.
Moving off the mark / stepping over to deliberately place the defender in the ruck - It is the responsibility of the player playing the ball to place the ball on the ground at their feet, and not to advance off the mark - if necessary the player should step backwards. OUTCOME – The player in possession will be penalised for moving off the mark if deliberately stepping over a defender to place them in the ruck.
Playing the ball into a defender in the ruck – The player playing the ball should maintain balance and control when heeling the ball to the acting half-back.OUTCOME - In this situation the player in the ruck will be penalised if hit by the ball - or if in the opinion of the referee the half-back is prevented from picking the ball up. EXCEPTION – A penalty will be awarded against the player playing the ball if the ball is forcibly heeled back with the intention of contacting the defending player with the ball.
Passing into an opposing player – Any ball passed into an opposing player in and around the ruck, in any direction, will be deemed to be acting against the spirit of the game. OUTCOME - The passer will be immediately penalised.
Steve Ganson, the RFL’s Head of Match Officials, explained: “A number of high-profile incidents during and before the Easter weekend have shown certain teams or players acting contrary to the spirit of the game, in a manner that has infuriated fellow professionals, broadcasters and, crucially, supporters.
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| Happy with this outcome,what’s the betting Gigot is first to be penalised for this,he as been by far the worse for milking these penalties it will be hard for him not to do it.
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| What have we learned here?
If you want something done by the RFL, post your grievance on the VT.
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| About time. This has been turning a lot of people against the game. What Shenton did was embarrassing, but it actually looks like it might have done the trick! Now just to start penalising players diving on the floor at the PTB trying to milk a penalty and we might just move the game forward.
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| Quote ="Wirefan"What have we learned here?
If you want something done by the RFL, post your grievance on the VT.
'"
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| Quote ="christopher"The RFL has addressed it with immediate effect
“The following additions / amendments to 2019 referee policy have been introduced with immediate effect:
Placing the ball on the defender lying on the ground – It is the responsibility of the player playing the ball to place the ball on the ground at their feet. If necessary the player should step backwards to ensure this can be done. OUTCOME – If the ball is placed on the tackler, this will be ruled a knock-on.
Moving off the mark / stepping over to deliberately place the defender in the ruck - It is the responsibility of the player playing the ball to place the ball on the ground at their feet, and not to advance off the mark - if necessary the player should step backwards. OUTCOME – The player in possession will be penalised for moving off the mark if deliberately stepping over a defender to place them in the ruck.
Playing the ball into a defender in the ruck – The player playing the ball should maintain balance and control when heeling the ball to the acting half-back.OUTCOME - In this situation the player in the ruck will be penalised if hit by the ball - or if in the opinion of the referee the half-back is prevented from picking the ball up. EXCEPTION – A penalty will be awarded against the player playing the ball if the ball is forcibly heeled back with the intention of contacting the defending player with the ball.
Passing into an opposing player – Any ball passed into an opposing player in and around the ruck, in any direction, will be deemed to be acting against the spirit of the game. OUTCOME - The passer will be immediately penalised.
Steve Ganson, the RFL’s Head of Match Officials, explained: “A number of high-profile incidents during and before the Easter weekend have shown certain teams or players acting contrary to the spirit of the game, in a manner that has infuriated fellow professionals, broadcasters and, crucially, supporters.'"
Way too much commonsense there for it to be true.
I need an official link!
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| Quote ="Wellsy13"Way too much commonsense there for it to be true.
I need an official link!'"
[url=https://www.rugby-league.com/article/54770/amendments-to--referee-policy [u=#FF0040Here[/u[/url
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| Still begs the question of what Ganson's been doing for the other 364 days of the year...
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| Quote ="christopher"The RFL has addressed it with immediate effect
“The following additions / amendments to 2019 referee policy have been introduced with immediate effect:
Placing the ball on the defender lying on the ground – It is the responsibility of the player playing the ball to place the ball on the ground at their feet. If necessary the player should step backwards to ensure this can be done. OUTCOME – If the ball is placed on the tackler, this will be ruled a knock-on.
Moving off the mark / stepping over to deliberately place the defender in the ruck - It is the responsibility of the player playing the ball to place the ball on the ground at their feet, and not to advance off the mark - if necessary the player should step backwards. OUTCOME – The player in possession will be penalised for moving off the mark if deliberately stepping over a defender to place them in the ruck.
Playing the ball into a defender in the ruck – The player playing the ball should maintain balance and control when heeling the ball to the acting half-back.OUTCOME - In this situation the player in the ruck will be penalised if hit by the ball - or if in the opinion of the referee the half-back is prevented from picking the ball up. EXCEPTION – A penalty will be awarded against the player playing the ball if the ball is forcibly heeled back with the intention of contacting the defending player with the ball.
Passing into an opposing player – Any ball passed into an opposing player in and around the ruck, in any direction, will be deemed to be acting against the spirit of the game. OUTCOME - The passer will be immediately penalised.
Steve Ganson, the RFL’s Head of Match Officials, explained: “A number of high-profile incidents during and before the Easter weekend have shown certain teams or players acting contrary to the spirit of the game, in a manner that has infuriated fellow professionals, broadcasters and, crucially, supporters.'"
Excellent - if all his officials understand that and enforce it correctly, this problem will be solved within one round of games.
Whilst he's on a roll, maybe he could look at milking penalties next; "Any player who is deemed to be chucking himself on the floor in an attempt to milk a penalty, will be immediately tasered in the testicles. Repeat offenders (I'm looking at you Gregory Bird) will be removed from the field of play and summarily executed in the car park."
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| Quote ="Chris71"So that is gamesmanship as Peyroux knowingly prevented a player rolling out the way by standing over him and unfortunately gameship has really crept in to RL recently and unless the RFL and the referees get a grip it will just mean the sport descending in to farce.
If a player makes a tackle and ends up in a position where they can not roll away due to the attacking player stood with a leg either side and the ball is deliberatley played into the prone defender then it should be play on or a penalty to the defending team for deliberately playing for a penalty.
In the Hull V Wakefield game Brough knew exactly what he was doing and deliberately stood over Minichello (to trap him) as he was in the process of rolling away from the tackled player, who then stood up and played the ball and Brough then let it hit Minichello and waved his arms for the penalty and was rewarded for his gamesmanship which is pretty much cheating for a penalty.
Another poor decision in the same game was Taylor being penalised for having a Wakefield player who he had tackled laid on top of him writhing around to gain a penalty when all he had to do was stand up as Taylor was clearly no holding him down but was unable to clear the area as the Wakefield player was laid on top making no attempt to get up. Similarly Jacob Miller running directly at a static Hull defender and throwing himself dramatically to the floor to yet again gain a penalty by conning the ref.
These are the areas refs need to seriously clean up otherwise the game will be ruined.
If an opposing player stands over a player that made a tackle then the ref should either let play go on or penalise the attacking player for simulation same as in football for diving.'"
If you listen to Lee Radfords Pre - Derby interview on Radio Humberside he openly admitted that he Encourages his players to cheat , and the only player who refuses to do so is Danny Houghton .
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| Quote ="My Mate Ronnie"If you listen to Lee Radfords Pre - Derby interview on Radio Humberside he openly admitted that he Encourages his players to cheat , and the only player who refuses to do so is Danny Houghton .'"
Radders says a lot of things with tongue in cheek, keep the posts coming Ronnie your naivety is laughable.
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| Quote ="Clearwing"Still begs the question of what Ganson's been doing for the other 364 days of the year...'"
That one's easy - he's been tracking the wrong player (again).
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| Quote ="Gallanteer"That one's easy - he's been tracking the wrong player (again).'"
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| Just the ridiculous, inconsistent and pathetic obstruction rule, plus the holding players down at the PTB to go and we might, just might, get our game back.
Either way, hats off for once to the RFL for moving to solve one of the major gripes of the modern game, and having the balls to do it mid season.
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