Difficult to enjoy any game with Jon Wilkin talking over it, but pretty average from England today.

Really think that in a tournament, you need to work on that 80 minute performance. Samoa didn't turn up last week, but first bit of resistance from the French and England dropped off. Switch off for ten against the better sides and you are 18 points worse off.

Ill discipline from England today. They need to improve that by the time they get to the knockout stages.

I think Cooper, Lees and Knowles are more "in your face" players and that was missing when France got some decent possession yesterday. Still worry about that No 9 spot though, that seems to be our weakest link so far.

Wane won't be happy with the amount of unecessary 6 agains at the wrong end of the pitch.

I'd like to see someone else at fullback next week, as I'm not impressed at all by Tomkins. Whoever plays next week should be told that they won't play in the quarters if they don't put in quality performance.

I don't rate Sneed that highly but he has the control & kicking at HB that Welsby doesn't & to some extent Williams, though none of the attacking threat. I'd be happy with Welsby at FB & Sneed at HB.

He's like a modern day Paul Deacon

, don't tell harigeorgeson.

Big test coming up for Wane. I think it's pretty clear on a few players who should and shouldn't be in the team at the moment. Ryan Hall should not. Despite belly flopping over for two tries, that he'd still be able to do at 60, he isn't anywhere near as good as Makinson or Young. Tomkins is having a bad time of it, unfit and out of form for Catalans for most of the year and non-existent for England. Bateman is another who Wane insisted had to be picked and had to be brought back after his suspension, only for him to be bang average like he's been for Wigan since he returned. He isn't anywhere near as good as Batchelor who lacks the Wigan links to even get in the squad for the France game.

Chances are he’ll keep Bateman in for Greece (so he’s had two games), rest either Whitehead or Radley or both. And play Batchelor/Pierce-Paul either off the bench (Knowles to be LF) or starting SR.

No. Just no. Welsby can kick, did you watch the grand final? Welsby was better at age 19 than Sneyd ever was. To win a World Cup you need players with X factor. Sneyd, whilst being a decent mid table half isn’t good enough to help us win the world cup

Sneyd should only be consideredc as a back up to cover injuries. Wane has got it right in using Tomkins, Welsby and Williams as our 1, 6 and 7 spine. As far as kicking goes we have that fully covered, Welsby has a great short kicking game and both Williams and Tomkins can kick short and long.

What was interesting in a recent article in that Williams and Welsby say they are almost telepathic and they know what each other is going to do, that is priceless for an international team when time and space is not always easy to come by. Taking my saints specs off I think Tomkins is doing a great job at full back with his experience and decision making.

Yeh, it was great. Penrith are relentless. Welsby's distance kicking is crap.

No-one is suggesting Sneyd is anywhere comparable to Welsby as a player. The discussion is whether England would be better with Welsby at FB, than with Tomkins. I don't watch a deal of NRL but from what I see a number of their HBs aren't flash. But they do control the game.

If you suggest Welsby plays fullback who will play half back knowing Sneyd is not quite good enough.

Sneyd will be good enough in the halves on Saturday but, there needs to be progress from te game v France when, despite some good moments, England were bang average.
If they defend as they did in that game after the group stages, it will be a swift end to our WC journey.
Much of the euphoria from game 1 was undone in an instant.

Welsby doesn't have a long kicking game but, he does read the game ridiculously well.

Yesterday was such a missed opportunity, England played without discipline, especially in the first half. Forcing passes and kicking too early in the count when it added nothing, it should have been a great opportunity to practice attacking moves and let "2nd choice" players show their worth.

With the lack of enthusiasm and discipline these last two games I really have to question the coaching. What was the plan for the games? How have we benefitted from these group matches?

I reckon he already knows who will be picked for knockout games despite form or performances, Ryan Hall looked like a player who had been told he won't play again barring injuries, despite him being exactly the sort of winger we need in the big games. Really think we should have played Welsby for 80 at fullback, I've seen Tomkins fail enough times at international level to expect it to happen again...

Really concerned our pack looks a bit weak too to be honest.

I agree. Welsby should have been at FB. Just to have him at FB in the system because if Tomkins goes down. Surely Welsby is next in line for FB?

Can we talk about Hill. He's a workaholic grafter to be admired at club level, like Andy Lynch and many other relentless machines over the years. His hand will always be up to take the ball in. So I admire and respect the bloke, but is being a hard worker enough to play for your country? Persuade me.

A bit like my comments about Sneyd - Aussies seem to have plenty of workmanlike front rowers who just do a job. I would have gone for Oledzki pre-tournament, as potentially more destructive, but have not been overly impressed so far. Matty Lees also disappointed for me. So probably would stick with Hill.

I thought Hill was lucky to be in the squad at the last world cup, the coach didn't really change the squad much from one season to the next, and Hill felt like he had passed his peak.

To see him still rated as one of the best props in the game is a pretty sad state of affairs, showing that either players haven't developed in the last 5 years to be better than him, or that the coach is not looking in the right places.

If Walmsley was fit, who would be dropped from the squad? Cooper or Hill? I doubt any on here wouldn’t have taken Lees, Oledski, Burgess, Thompson or Knowles.

Hill is decent at club level. But like people have said. Workmanlike isn’t good enough in this game anymore, especially with the pace of the rucks and the six agains. He hasn’t got the leg speed or the metres after contact anymore.

To be fair to Hill, he has performed better than others in the squad in the 3 (+1 warmup) games

2021(2)
Team details – Semi Final Exit, Wins against Tier 1 Nations: [size=2000[/size
Team in last tournament appearance:
Tomkins, Young, Watkins, Farnworth, Makinson, Welsby, Williams
Burgess, McIlorum, Hill, Whitehead, Bateman, Radley
McMeeken, Knowles, Thompson, Cooper
Coach: Shaun Wane

Well, that hasn't cheered me up, I was just starting to get over Saturday.

Would any England player get in the Aussie or Kiwi teams?

I don’t think so.

What about Samoa or Tonga,

I doubt that too.

Not a very helpful post, I know.

But I think it reflects the current situation.

English Rugby League is in a poor state in my view.

Problem is, no one wants to take responsibility.

The issue here is that England built their self belief on playing nobody. Greece, France and a poor (at that time) Samoa. When finally they come up against a team of worth it just wasn't there.

We beat PNG convincingly which was the opposite to the result when GB last played them.