He must, Smokey says so!

you had one with the same pedigree as Green. Green clearly is an NRL reserve grade player, he hasnt player a full season of NRL he has played 33 games in 5 years as a professional. He is distinctly average, the definition of a reserve grader.

There are many 24 year olds with much more than the equivalent of a single season of first grade in their careers. Many even younger with more experienced, Tansey, Moore, Myler, Smith, Wood, Tomkins etc

And the 18/19/20 year olds will never get that year of SL under their belt because clubs keep employing dross like Green instead of risking them for that year. You could have gone out and made a big play for a Mcnally, Wood, Southernwood and given them that year of SL, next year rather taking a risk on an unproven NRL reserve player

and no-one is asking you to fill a team with untested 19 year olds. You have one player in your entire squad under 20, and he is a bit-part reserve winger, with 4 appearances to his name. You could more than accomodate a british youngster instead of an NRL reserve grader. Your players arent youngsters, even ones like Welham, Mariano, and Ratu who your fans claimed are being developed are 22/23.

and ill tell you again, that its that kind of self-interest which damages the game, and its a very hollow victory that any relative Hull KR 'Success' is based on the fact that they arent making the same contribution to the british game as other clubs.

thats what i was told. If he doesnt, then theres a player Hull Kingston Australia can give a shot to right there, 21, british halfback, plenty of experience in the lower league and a little of SL. Has 3 other british Halfbacks in front of him. Would be a perfect signing if Hull KR are going down the unproven route

I trust Leeds will not be fielding thier 7 overseas players against Wigan on saturday?

7 strangely the same amount as Hull Kingston Australia fielded against Wigan this past week

Hope your right smokey, young, enthusiastic, didnt look out of place when he was on loan and a cas lad to boot.

It probably depends on whether or not they choose to player their club developed English international winger/fullback/ at Winger or ullback. If Smith plays on the wing, then no, Scott Donald, who i have long said shouldnt have got a contract at Leeds, he also isnt good enough to be taking a place from a young british player, (he also is an SL dream team member twice in two seasons like dobson) wont be playing, He is leaving at the end of this season and isnt likely to replaced by an overseas player as Leeds have 2 club developed English international wingers in Smith and Hall, a young prospect who has been given games in Watkins and another three quarter, developed by leeds in the England Train-on squad in BJB. Not to mention Broughton who is in the train on squad who was developed at Leeds, Calderwood and Fox, also international wingers developed by leeds. Though the principle is correct, Leeds should have been able to develop a winger better than Donald(which to be far, we have done a fair few times) and Prop who can do the job Kylie does Which would bring us down to five, Which imo would be the ideal number for clubs to be aiming for. 5 high quality imports.Because your others where injured. If you are happy to go into the game against wigan with 7, why do you need to add three to that number next year? i wouldnt complain if you were going into next year with 7, it would show you were moving in the right direction.

At the end of the day Smokey with all these average australians Rovers have signed and with the further ones they will be adding coupled with the fact that Leeds have all these superb home grown players you might be able to defeat Hull Kingston Australia at least once in the league next season

What that every player could be better? Whether Dobson would be reserve grade or not in the NRL is irrelevant. He is SL quality and not only that dream team 2 years running means he has clearly added to the quality of the competition.



Do you think that Justin Morgan is so stupid that given choice of comparable half backs, if they were available, he would choose to pay twice/three times as much for one just because he's an Aussie?



They did get a parachute payment specifically for youth development. And who did they sign Raleigh from? If he wasn't given the same ultimatum as Chris Charles (who went to Salford) sign now for guaranteed SL rugby or stay where you are and take your chances, he would probably still be at Hull KR now. If Blake Green turns out like Micahel Dobson then we'll have an excellent half back pairing. This is the same argument you are making about signing from lower leagues, why are there not excellent Aussie players outside of or on the fringes of the NRL?



I think the under 18's prove that our youth development is now good enough, you simply refuse to acknowledge the time required to recruit, develop and bring these players into the SL squad given the specific circumstances faced by Hull KR.



If there are players which will enhance Rovers' squad whether they be British, Aussie, Kiwi or Chinese, SL, NRL, National Leagues or Tiddlywinks players and they are available and want to come to Rovers then I'm sure we'll sign them.

I'm quite surprised by your u-turn on this from the point of arguing prior to SL expansion that there were emphatically NO players outside SL of SL quality. Now you seem to see them everywhere!

thats some straw your clutching at

thats a self-fulfilling argument, if we accept playing SL means you are SL quality and that adds to the the quality of the competition then we could simply employ the entire french 2nd tier and put them in SL. They would then by definition of playing in SL be SL quality players and as such adding to the quality of the comp.
How much do you think Blake Green is on? an how much do you think that would compare to a player like Wood, Southernwood, Myler etc? you really think Green will be on two or three times more? I dont think its down to cost, its down to risk. Going for Green is seen as the 'safe' option.

They signed him from Hull KR in NL1. Im not sure why this is relevant, unless its another attempt to claim Hull KR are responsible for Andy Raleigh even though they were his third club.
And? its a pretty poor effort to take 5/6 years to replace Andy Raleigh, A player you didnt even develop.

because it isnt sustianable for the entire league to rely on NRL fringe players. It damages the league, damages the international team and benefits no-one. And before you bring in your straw man argument of expecting you to have no overseas players or an entire squad of british players i dont. I just think considering you already have 9, and considering 3 of those never made it being NRL regulars, 2 of them never made an NRL appearance, you should be taking the same risk with younger british players.
If your under18s are so good, then at 19 next year they will be ready for SL rugby, how are you going to give them SL rugby with 10 overseas players? If they are good enough, then at 19 they need to be playing first grade. Why arent they getting a few games this year? and why do you need 10 overseas players next year?

im sure you will, which isnt a good thing. It just highlights how poor your commitment to the game, and to the young players of this country is.

aww, once again, and unsurprisingly, you are wrong. Go back and check what i actually said, which was there wasnt the roughly 90 players we would need to bring the SL clubs down to 5 overseas players each, and add 2 more teams. Considering (according to you) Hull KR couldnt ever possibly be at 5 overseas players by now, imagine how many more we would (apparently) need if Widnes had been promoted?

Not really, if the entire French 2nd tier team were put in SL and were all chosen in the dream team then yes, I would argue they have added to the quality of the competition. Otherwise your argument is, once again, ludicrous.



What makes Blake Green a 'safe' option?



One minute your saying sign players from other clubs, then your having a downer on HKR because they "didn't develop" the player. Your getting a bit transparent Smokey, I expect better of you.





Which is this league you speak of that relies on "NRL fringe players"? Surely Rovers have the same quota allowance as every other team. If players become off quota then it is hardly Rovers fault is it? Isn't the important thing the number of club trained players being brought through? Of which Rovers have added three to next seasons first team squad. I happen to think that it is important to respect the commitment to our game that players, of all nationalities, have made. The rules regarding the make up of squads set out by the RFL do that without casting aside long standing servants of the game. Those players will ultimately leave the game and any club that hasn't prepared for that will be shown up. I'm confident that HKR will not be.



They are good and three have been added to next season's SL squad. Welham when given a chance in pre season friendlies two years ago was good enough to pinch a former Great Britain internationals shirt off him, which he has retained ever since. That's quite a statement of intent regarding youth develoment and giving young players a chance don't you think? Young players have had game time this year.



Wrong. Your memory is, like your arguments, selective.

Well they would be in the dream team because the dreamteam would be picked from them.

a misplaced confidence in NRL reserve graders
One minute your saying sign players from other clubs, then your having a downer on HKR because they "didn't develop" the player. Your getting a bit transparent Smokey, I expect better of you.

'"

Just out of interest Smokey, who are these fair few lads we've developed who are better than Donald or Kylie?



I'd agree with that, as long as they are high quality. I'd also say that a reduction needs to be done slowly, there's no point chucking in a young lad simply because he's English. They need to be of sufficient quality otherwise it just dilutes the standard of the competition and helps no-one.

Sense at last!

Hall, Smith, Broughton, Gibson, Watkins, all either have the potential to be, or already better than Donald. Kylie we havent which is disappointing, but Ambler looks to have the potential to be much much better.


there will always, inevitably be the dilution of the competion. We need to rip of the plaster and just get it over and done with. Until a club sees the downsides of not developing their players they wont. As we are seeing. And im not asking for the moon on a stick here, i cant agree the quality of the league would fall drastically if Hull KR exchanged say, Lovegrove, Fisher, and Green, for say Amor, Kain, and Thackray.

Just because players arent playing SL doesnt mean they couldnt. Kirmond and Lunt are perfect examples of players who have improved the quality of the league because they are better than the equivelant players Hudds would have got had they followed the Hull KR route, players like Lovegrove and Fisher. So by giving a shot to these players we have in fact raised the quality of the league.

A few years ago Sheffield gave an untried 19 year old Rugby Union centre a position instead of a 25 year old NRL reserve grader. He wasnt an immediate success. He is now one the best players in SL history. There are others out there who could do the same, Leeds are trying with Amor and Coady, Hudds did it with Lunt and Kirmond why cant Hull KR?

Your argument would also hold water if the players they were bringing in were proven talents,they arent.

" If they haven't made it at 19 , they never will "

Is a post made by a poster involved on this argument

Any guesses ?

Scott Taylor & Josh Hodgson have both had game time this year,and will probably be replacing Ben Galea and Ben Fisher at the end of next season.

So why do you need to add Willie Mason?

Hall - perhaps, remains to be seen. If he keeps up his current form for a few more years then yes id agree.
Smith - sometimes he plays better, sometimes he plays worse. The fact that people aren't quite convinced he's an out and out winger yet and that after his brief stint in Union he's put on more weight than me after Christmas Day means the jury is still out on Smith.
Gibson & Watkins - are centres.
Broughton - has potential yes.

But all players have potential and besides is not what you said. You said that Leeds have developed a fair few wingers better than Donald. That is cr@p. At a push we've created one in Hall, and thats being generous. Thats also not criticising Hall, more praising Donald. Donald is a very good winger and in England we aren't, for whatever reason, producing good threequarters. Leeds included.

As for players better than Kylie, well we haven't produced any of those either. As you say Ambler has potential but to be "much much better" as you put it is a bold statement. That would be putting Ambler into the Peacock/Morley/Graham/Webcke/Price/Civoniceva category. Considering the lad is only 20 thats incredible foresight you have there. Plus we signed him from Salford.




For some reason, maybe because you know you're up a certain creek and paddleless, you seem to have tried to turn my argument into saying SL clubs should sign average Aussies. It's not and you know its not.
Everybody knows and agrees we have to reduce the number of imports in SL, the debate is over how best to do that. You think that the best way is to just slash the quota immediately (just out of interest, you don't work for the Tory Party do you?), whereas I would suggest a slower approach.
The problem with your way is that if we just immediately cut the quota to 5 then there would be 33 fewer imports playing in SL this season. Are there 33 English players of sufficient quality to replace every single one of them. If there aren't then the quality of the competition will decline, that then means that the English players who are of sufficient quality are playing at a lower level every week than they otherwise would have been. This obviously then affects the national team when we get our annual kicking off the Aussies, only this time it'll be worse than usual.
If, instead of that approach, we gradually reduce the quota (and since this is the approach the RFL have taken I assume they would agree too) then clubs have the opportunity to replace those imports steadily over time with youngsters of sufficient quality rather than chucking in young lads because they've no one else.

No-one is saying don't give young lads a chance either, just do it responsibly.

To add some beef to our pack,also he will hopefully put bums on seats and also bring on the young kids like,Liam Watts,Scott Taylor,Josh Hodgson,Scott Wheeldon etc.

Scott Wheeldon is 25 in February (and played in a Grand Final for Hull FC in 2006 and for 2 further seasons - 62 first team games in all) - is he really a "young Rovers kid" ? That [uis[/u a bit tenuous.

I disagree, i dont think he is a very good winger. He is a decent one, but both Hall and Smith have spent the season being picked ahead of him. And personally i would do the same.

And people dont doubt that Smith is an out and out winger because he struggles there, they doubt that because he has had some outstanding performances at full back where he has offered more.

Im not meaning to over-criticise Donald but he isnt a star player. I would take Peter Fox ahead of Donald (another Leeds product) along with a fair few other wingers in SL. He is an example of what i am talking about with a mis-placed confidence in fairly average overseas imports.

BTW, i think Hall is on a completely different level to Donald,

I said we havent, and have said i am disappointed that is the case. But being much better than a bit part NRL player doesnt make you Steve Price. Andy Lynch imo is much better than Lueluai, and i dont think its a massive stretch to say i think Ambler can be as good as Lynch
im not saying that this is your argument, simply that the alternative to giving these young players a go is average Aussies, that is what we are seeing with players like Blake Green and Shad Royston
I havent said we need to immediately drop to five, simply that we dont need clubs having 10. Also alot of that 33 would be some very average overseas players and the quality of the league really wouldnt be hugely impacted if at all by getting rid of them. I have no doubt that there are young players in the lower leagues and in academies who could do just as good a job as Charlie Leeano, Michael Korkidas, Rhys Lovegrove, Ben Fisher, Blake Green, Scott Donald, Cameron Phelps, et al.

And giving the youngsters a few games doesnt mean a fall in standards, we will find a few stars. Chris Clarkson only got so many games this year because of injuries at Leeds, he is now there on merit and has the potential to get much better, it helps him reach that potential that he is getting game time.

Well at my age,he's still just a kid


okay fair enough,but he's still young for a prop,and playing alongside big Willie will still bring him on.

This is one thing I disagree on , all this ' bringing on bollox

Young players need game time with some experience in their team , where that experience comes from is irrelevant

Well I still consider myself young at 27 so yeah why not.