[urlhttps://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/jan/07/super-league-clubs-transformed-adam-pearson-hull[/url
Anyone remember this?

...how's that working out for Mr Pearson et al?

So a franchise that opens its books and is not a closed club ? This would belp the rfl focus more on the championship clubs and getting them ready to enter the franchise. Super League has to look to increase numbers if we are to go to 10 teams then there must be a goal to get back to 12 and increase after that.

What we need most is the fans and chairmen to look past their club and what's best for the game not just in reducing the number of clubs but when it comes to increasing them too. The challenge is how is the championship or SL2funded ? Surely it would need its own TV deal and would it run at s lower cap ? And if we are going to go down to 10 teams are we significantly increasing the salary cap or do we just cut the teams down again if it doesn't get any better ?

It's not a case of not wanting franchising, its a case of asking is franchising the correct route for RL in the UK. You have to look at what is currently working within the game, how do we get the biggest crowds / audience and using that whilst not flogging it to a point it loses its appeal.

The franchising model essentially says you can lift St Helens, move then to London, call them London Sts and it will still draw the crowds and interest it did in its birth town, similar to what the NFL does with teams such as the LA / Oakland / Las Vegas Raiders.. sorry but it wont work, the sport isn't big enough or have the appeal where London actually want it. The Vegas raiders model is built on tourism and transient crowds, will people travel the world to see the London Saints?
Reducing to 10 or even 2 SL's of ten would essentially be the same thing, SL 2 wont get its own TV deal, certainly not one worth talking about, SL in its current form can't get a decent deal, what chance has SL2.

The local rivalries thing isnt about self preservation for team like mine, its about building on what the fans want to see, ask the question, which games get the biggest crowds? which get the most hype on Sky TV, which generate the cash for the clubs. Its the local derbies, the final throes of a relegation battle and the grand final, even the play offs no one can be bothered to go until its the latter rounds unless theres an added element.. yet what are we suggesting, spread the game so we lose local rivalries, franchise so we lose relegation.... you couldnt make up the lunacy of that.

I am not sure why calling for overseas teams at the expense of home based teams is considered an answer. A stronger French league would be preferable.
There was a time when we could have created big city teams and gone down that route but the money is no longer there. All the talk of mergers caused a retrenchment in the RL community at the possible loss of the old names and now that ship has sailed. There was a time when there was no professional rugby of either code in Birmingham and the South East RU teams were all second rate but that is no longer the case.
A ten team TV league would have to see the relocation of some of the big teams. The idea that Wigan, Saints and Warrington could be sacrificed in the way that American football does with it's teams would be risky in the extreme. Perhaps we need a real Packer v Murdock set too to rip the landscape apart, unfortunately the money is not there to pay for it.

Top class post.

What works works, and you don't muck it all about on the baseless dream that new investors, new fans and new TV money will flow from whatever exciting dream one fan thinks up in his bedroom........

The number of "expansion" clubs thrown into the traditional mix over 125 years tops 50 and they have all failed. We have a product, we have an audience, we have investors and we have quality players. They are who they are, they are from where they are from, and there is only one model that will preserve the game until the day comes that interest in the game sinks low enough for us to lose the TV deal.

For some noisy people there's this idea if you stick a club in New York, pop one in Paris, another in Ottawa, and don't forget Madrid and put them into Superleague , then the game will bust out from it's northern shackles, TV deals will flow, rich investors will want their own new RL clubs and fans will flock to see the games.

Pit villages isn't the way, I mean look at London's stellar success, and how well Paris went in the 1996 season, when 10K crowds watched both games. Look at how Toronto went with instant massive crowds tearing up the Championships.

I'm afraid the future is the past. Why don't people just enjoy it, not wish it away?

I don't buy the "big city clubs" thing at all. Not one bit. Manchester and Liverpool became footballing giants, but these days I am sure many fans living in Liverpool are Saints fans and certainly many Manchester people get on the train to Wigan on matchdays.

These are big clubs with a very wide attraction as are Warrington, Leeds, Hull and Bradford. Cas is a town of 35,000 people and a following of 7,000 fans, Do as many as one in five people in Castleford go to games? Cas pull from a very wide audience.....

Imagine if Cas had relocated to Sheffield to get at the potential 600,000 fans living in the steel city?...................

So who is the "big club" between big city Sheffield Eagles and Pit Village Featherstone Rovers? Worth a thought people as you can be sure that some people will be trying to tell us how big city Toulouse beating Featherstone Rovers and taking an SL place will massively [uimprove the footprint of the game[/u or some kind of mindless slogan.

2019 attendances Pit Village Fev 2,900 modern metropolis Toulouse 2,900

Forget "big cities" London has per head of population the least interest in Rugby League only one in 5,000 are bothered even when they are in SL......

But a London club is apparently "Important"

Whilst we worry about the depth of talent in the game, the other lot expand to 14 and insist on 15 English players in their match day squads...

Because whilst rugby league is on its last breath in this country, rugby union just goes from strength to strength.

Also interesting that RU seem to be letting nature take its course on who comes up, now that Saracens have returned there's no massive team waiting or new frontier to conquer. Based on league places over the last few years it'd likely be Ealing or Cornish Pirates both are well established, relatively small teams.

Really ??
Are they playing Union in schools again, yet (I know it's not rugby season) ?

Not like you to introduce an anti-overseas clubs statement to a topic.
Obviously Featherstone have a very rich history and heritage and also appeared at Wembley.
Toulouse are very much a newer side into games against English clubs.
I suspect once Toulouse are established,either in The Championship, or higher,than their attendances will increase.
Comparing and contrasting apples and pears ain't beneficial.
Those big city clubs you espouse,York and Newcastle,are hardly setting the world alight with their attendances - albeit with Covid restrictions at present.
How would you revamp the sport or are you content with ever-dwindling standards,participants and attendances - and broadcast deals?

Really? Is that the best you have? Schools?
Im pretty sure union is played in far more schools than league

Why not compare actual grass roots participation?
Or TV money?
Or number of amateur clubs?

League is dying. Union isn’t

10 team leagues are too small and soon become boring for spectators. The game would be better going semi-pro and reverting to one big division in the hope of reinvigorating some of the old rugby league teams by having visits from the bigger clubs.

Whether you believe union is thriving or not, you can't deny that it's possibly in A&E whilst we are in ICU!

In the last season prior to the Covid malarky, they averaged 14,500.
League averaged 8,440.
In 2018, Wales, Ireland, The Barbarians, South Africa, New Zealand, Japan and Australia visited Twickenham...only the barbarians gate was sub 80,000 and was still over 50,000.
2018 was a busy year for England RL, with 5 tests. The 4 at home attracted 81,213....that's 62 fewer people that watched England play Australia at Twickenham in a friendly!
In the middle of a global pandemic, The English Premiership signed off on a deal worth £40,000,000 a year to them. This is an extension at the same rate as before
In the middle of a global pandemic, the European Superleague agreed to £25,000,000 a year. This is 37.5% reduction on the same rate as before.
Currently, The British and Irish touring side are in a covid rampant South Africa to potentially fulfil a fixture schedule in place since before the Pandemic.
Currently it is reported that the NRL clubs don't want to let their players got to the RLWC because they'd have to quarantine for a fortnight on their return!

As I say. Neither game is ripping up trees, but if you're looking for a prognosis, one looks like it's stable whist the other is on life support in a self induced coma!

Sorry, Orangeman, I was replying to our resident, name changing, troll.
Of course Union is in better shape than league, I'm not denying that.

However, if we dont get to a position quickly, where contact sports can be played in schools, it's going to be extremely difficult for ALL contact sports.
The private school close to us, which would be regarded as a Rugby Union school has removed all of their Rugby posts and are now playing football and whilst Union in the UK still has revenue to dwarf that of League, to suggest that Union is going "from strength to strength" is simply not true, unless of course, their business models are somehow exempt from the effects of covid and I would suggest that they are not.

100%
My boy (7) plays ripper Rugby here in NZ. This is his last season before he goes full contact and his Mother isn't so sure...I've tried to explain that the drinking I did after games of Union has probably done more damage to my noggin than any contact, but with each new report on concussion and dementia, the case against full contact grows stronger.

Yes there are some nasty trolls re-appearing

...Hey ho.

Union is of course in decline as their size as a national game across the British Isles continues to decline significantly in terms of playing numbers.

Same for us, both games have suffered exactly the same way. Union has always been in "better shape" but it's decline pro rata matches League.........

BTW how are Wakefield RUFC doing nowadays compared to Wakefield Trinity??

Ones a corpse in an outdated rat infested tomb, the other folded in 2004

I acknowledge your worries on the head contact thing. Neither soccer or either code of Rugby has been able to do much more than pay lip service to it.

I shudder a lot more now when I watch games and players are still going off with head knocks for "checks" from the medical team....

Funny that when I was running the brewer in the corner I didn't come across one single rat or evidence of any being around but there were cats, being there early morning's would of expected to see at least one but then when I used to work down in London in the past they never failed in showing up some times in packs walking around like pets, they do say your never to far away from rodents

I've yet to see concrete evidence that rugby or football players get dementia/CTE problems over and above that within the general population, can you point me to the reports?
The case against getting out of bed, walking down stair, getting out the shower, walking, driving is far stronger re head injuries and the damage that does both short and long term at populatio level.
Cycling for example has a slightly lower injury rate than people on foot, it's got worse since helmet wearing was pushed in the mid 00s post UCI then British Cycling enforcing wearing which fed down to every other ignorant do-gooder orgs, the point being that risk is badly understood by people and they base decisions on emotion and ignore other things going on around them in every day life that have same or worse outcomes overall.

When supposed greater protections are brought in, any notional benefit (which is never the same as real life IME) is usually offset by risk compensation (as seen in all helmet wearing activities/sports) and then made worse by inactivity due to participants no longer wanting to participate, so injuries and overall health drops/obesity increases.
So for countries like Australia and NZ, when helmets were introduced with a penalty for not wearing, children expecially gave up in their droves (over 90% of teen girls stopped cycling in one state within months) and injury rates went up as the focus was put more on the vulnerable than the persons doing the harm, NZ and Aus have some of the worst rising obesity rates in the last 30 years.
Same thing in Ice hockey, boxing, pro cycling, American Football, even cricket, all fallen foul of attempting to make the sport safer but the overall outcome was worse regards head injuries and even deaths.

Reported head injuries in England and Wales (to a medical professional) were from the last papers I looked at around 1.6M/yr, not all hospitals gave figures so that's an under report, according to Headway 350,000 admissions in 2016/17 for acquired brain injuries.
If we want to destroy society/make it worse overall then attempting to remove risk completely or some figure that seems to be acceptable to x group of people is the way to do that, all it does is work against public health at population levels and EVERYONE suffers, not just those that have stopped doing the activity.

Ill just quote the last paragraph, but acknowledge a great post, very interesting, and the reaction to the latest head injury worries in rugby & football, i.e. business as usual, seems to show that people are ready to take their chances. Every time I watch the tough contact in rugby and the soccer lads and lasses heading the ball I will appreciate their skills and bravery all the more.......

They get out of the way when you come along just like the WUM's on here

It was a turn of phrase that was a poor attempt at humour, but now you mention the cats, that in itself points to you being a "cat woman" or there being another food source on site