I agree. All those things do matter to some degree. It's what determines the culture of a club. There's a whole thread on whether Lam is the right person to lead us and a lot of that comes down to whether he can get the best from these players. Radford has just lost his job because in large part because of his inability to spark the right culture at the club. How many times a day would you say the typical sports coach uses the word "attitude"?

As for the rest of it and your subsequent post you're starting to use straw man arguments which is a sure sign you've run out of relevent things to say. Would you care to point out where I've used Hastings attitude going into this game as "some kind of bench mark for a perceived problem at Wigan"? Further would you point out where I've said his attitude was any more than a contributory factor? As a matter of fact I've specifically said it wasn't the sole reason we lost. However it did play it's part.

That's exactly the point you seem to be missing (I'm guessing as it suits your argument).

He says, in his own words, that he specifically DIDN'T do his job! His whole career was based on scoring goals and this was the one example where he wished it hadn't gone in. In his own words: "That's a shame".

Thanks for telling me what I'm thinking and that I've run out of arguments (a sure sign that your running out of counter arguments, I dont believe that, just pointing out anyone can claim something that isnt true as fact just to try and prove their right)

I can sit here and claim all your points are "strawman" arguments just to discredit you when in fact they are what they are, points that are relevant to your initial post which IMO was a post that laid the blame for last nights defeat solely at Hastings feet.

You also then say that it was a conributing factor to the loss, not the only, but in the original post you make no reference to their being a dozen other issues that contirbuted to the loss. You just seem to blame hastings.

Look,
I've asked twice now

Let's get rid of him?
Yes or No?

But it still went in and it was still him that stuck it in.

Players play against the teams they support all the time and score against them. Should Sam Tomkins not play against Warrington? Or what about Zak if we draw Fev in the cup?

Hastings scored a try and did his job. The reason why we lost was not down to Jackson Hastings.

I'm being honest mate,.I dont get your point.

He said he "almost" regretted scoring
He had a job to do, he did it, he didn't like it but he did it.

What point are you trying to make?
Is it that Denis Law wasnt a true professional,
Denis law should never have played against man utd again EVER
Man city shouldnt have signed Denis law because he would be celebrate amd have regrets of he did score against man United.
That denis law should have packed in playing football after leaving United?

What should Jackson Hastings have done?
Never left Salford?
Retired
Not played?

None of the above and I've never suggested otherwise. You're an intelligent and knowledgeable bloke and I generally enjoy discussing things with you even when we disagree. However you keep putting Straw man arguments forward and that makes it difficult to discuss the actual points under discussion.

To clarify my stance. I think Hastings is a good player and from what I've seen a good person. I am happy with his performances for Wigan and am glad he's signed for us. I've said so on these very boards numerous times.

My problem was with his attitude in this one game and this one game only. You might accept his reasons for having said attitude and that's fine. We're all entitled to our opinion. I don't. I think the level of 'respect' he showed for his former club was too much and, in the end, affected his performance and had a negative effect on the team. Look at all the press leading into this game. Was there any need, for example, to come forward and announce to the world that he wouldn't be celebrating if he scored? Do you think that was a positive going into this game?

I'll refer you to your own comments on the attitude of Tony Clubb in games and the net effect that has on the team. Whilst I would agree that Clubb is on a different level to what we're discussing here the underlying principal is the same and any negative should not be acceptable, particularly when it is self inflicted. Hastings had the wrong approach to this game. If you're ok with that then, as I said earlier, that's fine. You're perfectly entitled to hold that viewpoint. However, I'm not of the same opinion.

Mate, I don't wish to be condescending here but do you understand a Straw man argument? Forgive me if you do but it's essentially putting words into someone's mouth then arguing against it, even though they never said the thing you're arguing against. I have never done that with you so, no, we can't all claim that.

You on the other hand have suggested I'm using Hastings' attitude in this game as some benchmark for an underlying problem at Wigan. I've never said that. You're saying I blame Hastings for the loss. I've never said that. You're now asking do I think he should play for us as if I've brought this up as an option. I haven't. Questioning someone on an individual attitude to an individual game does not mean, or even remotely suggest, any of the above.

We should hammer Catalans on Sunday based on this logic

I think Hastings is a breath of fresh air for the game, a player who just says it as it is.

Salford literally saved his life, Ian Watson in particular played a big part in that.

Hastings showed respect by not celebrating the try imo and although the fact that we got it wrong performance wise I dint think you can put that down to one player.

Hastings has been very good for Wigan so far and I’ve seen little to question his attitude or commitment to the cause.

I only asked should hastings go because if is attitude stinks and is a disgrace as you out it then what do we do, surely that unacceptable attitude will rise to the surface in other ways?

On the strawman
Well to be fair you have already told me that I have no other arguments (so who's putting words in whos mouth?)
You told me I was ok with us parking the bus (putting words in my mouth again)
In a nother post you've already told me that you cant believe something would be true or I could think that when it was you who came up with the statement not me (thanks again for telling me what I was thinking).

Your words

"I'm not usually one for bagging individual players and I like Hastings. However last night's attitude was a disgrace and no way to go into a top flight sporting contest. His attitude set the tone. Salford wanted it more and it showed."

And yet you then say later when challenged that you didnt say Hastings attitude was the only factor

You said his attitude set the tone
His attitude was a disgrace
Salford wanted it more, more than who? JUST HASTINGS?

So why no post on the other co tributing factors?
Smith's tackling
Lams coaching/substitutions/tactical decisions?
Poor.kicking game.and general bad end to sets which 5/6 players need to accept responsibility for

I'll say my final words on the subject

Whether Hastings celebrated in the way you did or didnt want him to.
Whether hastings talking about his former club and showing respect, too much respect
Etc
Then IMO made NO difference to the 80mins of the game.

"If" French gets the ball and we go 20 -8 up we win and No such thread about Hastings exists

"If" Smith makes that simple one on one tackle the same

"If" hankinson kicks that goal at 14- 2 then maybe even the same.

If Powell passes the ball, or IMO shouldnt have had his hands in the ball in that situation. Then the same
"If" whilst already one natural forward short due to Isa playing centre we dont bring another forward off and put another pivot on and we hand the forward momentum to Salford (who made.somthing like 500mtrs.more than us 2nd half) then the same.

And I'm not having that hastings saying nice words about Salford (just like Lam would have said or anyone else if asked about salford) had any effect on Wigans performance or the performance of other players.
If it did then youd need to ask the other players and coaches why they were so unprofessional as to let them effect it or not kick him up the backside if he wasnt doing or performing in the way he should.

I agree attitude/desire etc play big parts in success, whilst maybe not ideal it can be difficult to play against former clubs etc.
But to use that as the foundation for ay blame.for a single result, whilst ignoring dozens of other factors which IMO are more deep rooted st the club is unfair.

Our success or.lsck of this year will be dictated far.more bu those dozen other issues than whether Hastings still has a soft spot for Salford

This one is pure comedy.

Deary me. There's always one embarrassing fan for every club.

Hastings will always love Salford. They saved his career, and in particular Watson and Blease. He lives with his best mate in Salford, who still plays for Salford. Blease is a neighbour, and he has his tea around at Blease's once a week. Hastings own family are very close with people at Salford. He got us to a GF and won Man of steel off the back of all this.

He's a professional though. He's a winner. He'll always give his all for the team he plays for. The OP here is making themselves look like a jealous teenager who's obsessed with their current partners ex.

Hastings will bleed for Wigan, but it doesn't mean he'll turn his back on extended family.

Agree

Other than the embarrassing fan comment; I completely agree.

Agreed

There have been some embarassing threads on here but this is the best. What on earth is the thread starter on about lmao

Do you remember that time Shaun Wane was laughing and joking about losing a game?? No me neither.

Why do the Wigan public boo Sam Tomkins and Josh Charnley??

Wakefield away when we lost 62 0.

Not sure what you mean by that, but you and everyone else knows that day was ridiculous. If he was laughing then it would have been the incredulous nature of the circumstances surrounding that day.

A defeat like that on Friday in those circumstances under Wane and you know for a fact what he would have been like.

I'm not one for calling for coaches heads, I think it was Nicky Kiss who mentioned that I tend to be one of the more patient types of fans.
But there are lots of things I dont like about Lam, not enough for me to want him sacked yet, but when people mention unproffesionalism aka the Hastings thread and blame players when the coach should be the single most important person setting those cultures then I will highlight it.

Early last year Lam criticised 3/4 different sets of people for losses, including senior players, nee players etc. And then I remember after the loss at Saints he said we did well until we went back to our old way of playing, referencing Wane imo, what was that way of playing? Winning?

At no point have I heard him talk about getting stuck into players, working harder at training, himself needing to work harder etc.

A couple of times this year weve been interviewed for TV and my mate BFUT in one pulled the pants down of a player, and in another was kicking a ball at Zak hadaker.
No way on earth does that happen under Wane IMO.

So that's were I don't buy into the Hastings bashing as such and anything to do with him being to ball.e for that loss.
IMO theres dozens of other things we need to be focussing on before worrying about whether a player shows too much respect to his old club in an interview.

Heres one from Lam from Friday
“We were fortunate enough to play tonight and give the fans the chance to watch the game, because who knows in the next month where we’re going to be.
“[uThat’s why the performance was really important for us and to win, just in case we don’t play another game for a couple of weeks[/u

And???

He was laughing in the box with several others. Didn't go down well with some but as you say different circumstances.

And another

A length of field Niall Evalds try - one of two four-pointers for the Red Devils’ all-time top Super League try scorer on the night - was a key turning point in the second half, and Lam hopes to see his side cutting out the intercepts that have led to a number of similar scores so far this season.

[u“For the fifth or sixth week in a row, we go for the grubber and they go full length of the field,” he reflected. “It’s happening to us every week. We threw two intercepts last week, one a couple of weeks before that, the kick intercept tonight; I think a little bit of bad luck went against us there.”[/u

So it's just bad luck?
Were not going to do anything about it?
I commented 10mins before half time that wed had sloppy/unorganised and poor ends to 5 of the last 6 sets.

2nd half we do same thing again and have 3 or 4 bad ends to sets. Not just bad kicks as such, bad unorganised ends to sets.

1st game of season theres fans cheering because Tony Clubb chips on last and we get a repeat set.
What the F*** is he doing with ball in hand on last?

Budgie makes an 80 yard break and Marshall picks the ball up against 11/12 men and runs it directly to the only player Wire have back, we had no idea what to do!

Other examples in other games that led to last week against HKR 3 or 4 similar things happening and bad ends to sets or intercepts.

1st half we kicked 3/4 times really unorganised as if we didnt know what we were doing and ending up with Farrell kicking at one point, opposition get ball back and 1 tackle later they're 30/40/50 yards downfield. No control to end of sets.

2nd half at one point we end up going blind to Willie Isa!!!

We switch Isa who's right sided to left centre, why not Move Hankinson there? Let Isa continue on right.

And Lams answer is

"It’s happening to us every week. We threw two intercepts last week, one a couple of weeks before that, the kick intercept tonight; I think a little bit of bad luck went against us there"

No it's not bad luck, it's bad coaching and organisation
And he "Hopes" better be more like theyll be working damn hard to fix it!!!!! Not hoping it sorts itself out and rely on luck going our way.

Completely and utterly different circumstances
If Lam played Friday with 1/10th of the issues Wane had that day id maybe cut him some slack.

10 plus of those players that day if not more shouldnt have played.
As you've said privately (text) Wane said he wasn't worried and knew where we were, he was right, we won the GF.

The fans that were peed off maybe had no idea of the issues going on that week (I had a call on the Friday saying they couldn't see how game was going to go ahead there were that many going down sick), and I knew Sunday morning how bad the situation was and that the gamenshouldnt go ahead.

I think you told me about 20 minutes before the teams came out what the situation was and it was obvious the afternoon we were in for.

You're quite right that Wane wouldn't have been sharing a joke with the opposing coach after Friday, but I've sort of mellowed slightly now in terms of reacting to what coaches say and do in the press/public eye after what was said/done that season as well as other things.

It's all about what they do behind closed doors and how we as a team improve, which again you are right in saying that under Lam it just isn't. I would say that half the tries we have conceded this season have been directly from mistakes such as poor kicks, interceptions, forcing the ball. It should be fixed in training but doesn't appear to be.