It's not up to you to decide who is going "off topic". It is very important to remind people expansion isn't expanding travel distances between clubs by 6,000 mile round trips, nor is it expansion if new clubs who don't develop players replace old clubs who do. After all it was made clear at the start of this American adventure by the RFL and agreed by NA investors and their CEO's that expansion meant more players into the player pool.

Newcastle and London understand this and they do this, so they qualify to be an assett to Superleague due to the growth they are creating in the player pool via their academies. Despite not being in Superleague the owners both still run academies and that point has been ignored for four years whilst people dream of America. Furthermore you cannot buy SKY subs in North America but you can in the north East and the South West of England so I feel that Superleague 2022 including these two $Millionaire owner clubs will be very significant and very real expansion that will please SKY and get us the deal North America cannot get.

On relegation from Superleague AFAIK both Widnes and Bulls kept their academies with the blessing of Superleague because if they can pull a rich owner they would be able to get back in and would need the player development. I don't think it's the rich getting richer, just the bigger clubs organising themselves to be assets to the game under the 2022 new TV deal. And think about this - if we can develop more players in the North East and South west we may just get back to a 14 club SL? NO LOOP FIXTURES

I get your point totally, I along with many others on here have done since you first started posting, I found it most interesting and still do to a point, but that was over 300 posts ago but now it's the same old same old, the facts are still the same albeit dressed up slightly different, I don't want an expansion club at the expense of a heartland club, but it's here now whether it expands is a different matter, as for fantasising about the game,an unnecessary comment not really needed.

The North American clubs are being admitted into the RFL's Championship structure currently funded by SKY money. The SKY money is set to reduce and the RFL and the Championship clubs are worried they will get nothing 2022 (the agreement is currently that if the 2022 SKY deal reduces by 25% all the money will go to Superleague).

Superleague can't be clearer they will not be going Transatlantic, so Newcastle and London are OK and Toronto, Ottawa and New York will be together in the Championships. This will mean several US derbies which just might help the game there. It may get them their own NATV deal, and inspire kids to play the game there.

You do not speak for others Wayne, if you don't like what I am saying which is a new idea for real expansion then don't join the discussion, or use the ignore function?

You don't have a point, You talk about London and Newcastle as though they've just been discovered by you, so you should be pleased to know they've been going some time now as most people are already aware of, it's not a brand new point though is it it's just an extension to your previous rants about the North Americans and just another avenue to go down in your attempt to discredit this expansion to the game, my amateur censorship as you call it is nothing more than petty sarcasm on your part and just an opinion of mine and does you no favours.

Firstly,I concur.I do not decide what is on/off topic - but as you started this thread,gave it the title Newcastle Thunder,it would probably be better to discuss Newcastle Thunder.

Secondly,perhaps you should explain the idea behind 'academies',their purpose and benefit.

With the 80% Hull fans - how come their academies were so successful they decided to merge? How many academy products made it into the first teams over recent years?

This academy stuff,in association football,has resulted in the richer clubs 'signing' future 'academy' players,from overseas,at a very,very young age.It kinda defeats the object of raising the 'elite ability' of local players.

Meanwhile,the successful academies here in Ol' Blighty,hasn't got us close to the pesky Australians,in Test and World Club games.

But as long as the heartland clubs,with no money and small attendances,are happy...

100% of fans of every club would really like you to stop referencing that irrelevant poll.

Last time I looked if Ottawa and NYC come to fruition, then that is an extra 30 odd full time positions for players. That's expansion.

Not if those 30 odd positions are filled to the brim with past it journeymen from the NRL. Which they will be.

"IF"

IF

I can't believe you have any doubts! They can pay low level players what they want and those lads will take it all day, but to what purpose?

Superleague can't get rid of Toronto fast enough so good luck with your Transatlantic Championship. Anyway if we can expand Superleague north and south to London and Newcastle then we need to look to Wales again for further expansion.........

Well nothing is decided yet, but obviously it has come out that Toronto had to pay their players massively over the odds to get them. As it was the league was set up as such that TWP could go through the leagues for four seasons and a fifth next year before the New TV deal.

But the new 2022 TV deal will be struck by Superleague this time and not the RFL, so players will know signing up to North American clubs means they won't be playing Superleague ever. It's for another thread but New York are busting a gut to get established before Superleague shut the door. I can't however see any decent players signing one year contracts.

Back on topic any ambitious up and coming players would be better signing up for London and Newcastle

I think you'd best wait until the Coronavirus impact on the sport of Rugby Union is established.

Both clubs play at union stadia and that sport also has financial problems.

Should the Falcons fail to be promoted will the owner continue at Newcastle? It would seem a large outlay for two sides and neither side being in the 'elite' league allocated large TV revenue.

A long stoppage will certainly be felt in London.The private equity firms financial assistance may be limited to the 'elite' clubs.

Just on your last point.

If we have a 12 club top flight, with say, 6 overseas clubs, we will be further away than ever, from competing with, never mind beating the Aussies.
Not only that, but with "English" players spread even further around the globe, getting them together to train as a national squad will become even more difficult.

I think that you just popped one into your own net

I don't have an own net,or feel embarrassed.

I still wait for the next Ellery Hanley to emerge from an Academy - same as England soccer fans wait for success while the Academies eat up and spit out youngsters signed from around 8 yrs old,to all play and all be wrapped in cotton wool,and all play to the same style,and tactics.

We lag behind other countries in sport,and apparent pandemics.It's all short-termism,wherever I look.

The constant changing with regard to ages,and player pathways,not forgetting some clubs are allowed reserve sides and academies,and then they're not! It may sort itself out one day...

History would suggest otherwise.

Good luck to Newcastle Thunder (if & when this season continues) or if not, hope they can stay around for 2021.

Yes the academies are terrible

But having no academies at all is far far worse. You go to some odd extremes to (I assume) justify the American dream. Mr. Perez totally accepts that America needs to develop players, but he is unable to set anything up............ and do remember Mr. Perez was head of Canada RL for years He founded Canada RL in 2010 - ten years ago. Once again academies are working in Newcastle and London, but Mr. Perez has not been able to get any development going in Canada despite 10 years of trying at both ends.

Meanwhile here in GB academy RL and player development stretches 250 miles from the far north of England to the south. That's real expansion, lets take that for 2022.

Good one.

If we have a 12 club top flight with six overseas clubs (which will never happen SKY must have at least 9 English clubs) there is no way English clubs outside Superleague are going to pay out £300,000 a year to run foundations and academies to help stock a Transatlantic league they can never be part of. Currently Mr. Perez has been shouting about grass roots development in Ottawa but he's shouted about this for 10 years. Now Wilby has revealed an NY investor in Mr. Scanlan but again how much will the gentleman be investing in player development?.

And when RL is only played at top level in Hull, Leeds, Huddersfield, Wigan, St.Helens and Warrington how many spectators will the game lose, how many schools will turn to union? how many amateur clubs will shut their doors. The fact is going Transatlantic will kill the game here. Yes we want expansion...and so grasp it in Newcastle. Grasp it in London and look to Wales for the future. Yes I know we have failed in Wales since 1907 but Canada RL died in 1960 and despite a small revival around 1980 there's been very little grass roots RL since and four years of TWP has done nothing.

It's so important to remember when Celtic Crusaders came along. Love them or hate them the Junior game in Wales exploded with their inclusion.

Donnyman,
It does seem fatuous to use Newcastle Thunder as an example when you are simply continuing your tirade against Canadian/North American clubs.

I don't recall you having a go at Shane Richardson or Kath Hetherington when they were in charge of their first year at Gateshead Thunder.

The progress to Thunder having an academy has been due to persons outside of the club;in the first instance.Certainy independent of the club despite a number of club owners.

The sam can be said about development in south Wales of the youngsters;independent of the Crusaders club owner in Bridgend.

The 'great' heartland clubs,have,in recent years,had to be dragged,kicking and screaming,to have reserve sides,to continue the pathway of youngsters still interested in playing the sport.

There are far more important concerns for clubs starting off in the professional/semi-professional ranks.

I think academies are good ideas - just as well the governing body does,or those independently run heartland clubs would NOT consider them.

Perhaps we should emulate what some other European soccer clubs do and have the best coaches coaching the youngest players.

Even with academies,over the past years,this country lags behind.

Perhaps the overseas clubs,and players will catch up - they ain't too far behind as it stands.

Not true at all. Very quickly after both Celtic Crusaders and Gateshead Thunder started they inspired RL people locally to support and develop Rugby league grassroots and this was in the face of opposition and competition from Rugby Union and soccer. Simple as.

If we want expansion regardless of preferences about where it should be, it can only be measured playing wise by grass roots growth, and commercially by the ability to underpin a paying TV deal. we have London and Newcastle who can do the old 1-2-3.

1. Rich owner
2. Can underpin a TV deal with fans paying TV subs
3. Can develop players.

That's the point of the thread, anyone who wants viable and effective expansion can get behind these two clubs London and Newcastle. I hope you are "in"

How are London viable when they have gone bust about 309 times and produced one super league player in 30 years? Toronto have produced the same number of SL players in 3 years

please give us the dates to the 309 times yer cock wobble

The owner is wealthy enough to do so, [uequally London Broncos have a wealthy owner who reduced his cost base accordingly[/u and AFAIK Mr. Lenegan still get's involved with the Broncos so they are well looked after now.

It's important in a league where all the owners have to put money in at times they get on together, and that they work to the same business plan of serious player development and maximising TV appeal. More SKY dishes in London and Newcastle will be most welcome and this would be an obvious way to try to maximise the 2022 deal. Sadly if there are any concerns for "staying around" they lie in Perpignan.

One Super League player?? That has got to be one of your daftest posts ever and that's quite an achievement even for you.

I've read thousands of daft posts. As we organise for providing SKY with a viable game that meets what they want, they will get dafter and dafter!! ANYWAY a quote on topic.......

"Dave Rotherham, the RFL’s Interim Chief On-Field Officer, said: “We’re pleased to confirm the acceptance of applications from Halifax and Newcastle Thunder to produce a 15-team Reserve Grade competition from 2020. Newcastle also submitted a thorough application which stressed the quality and quantity of their player supply through their established Academy structure. We will continue to support them, and other clubs, as we monitor the return of the structured Reserve Grade competition next season – which as stated previously, is seen as a vital step in the talent and performance pathway, developing high quality players for Super League and England".

Once in Superleague they will offer a pro-career to North East rugby lads London and Newcastle look good for 2022, viva expansion!