It depends what the criteria for success is. If it's improving the national team and French RL then no. Their top players are all aussies on a last pay day or those that come with baggage.

It's the same with Toronto. They made plenty of promises and will ultimately be judged on those.

I’m asking what do you see as success?

I’ve cited their crowds, financial stability and increase in volume of french players across the game as success measures - which to me is more important than their on field performances or squad. How would you measure success?

Also probably worth noting, they are one of only a small handful of clubs to have actually won any silverware in the last 30 years, despite not being in existence for that full period

Again....it depends on what the criteria for them was/is.

Their crowds are strong that is a definite and whilst they occasionally have strong on field performances these usually aren't due to an influx of local players. They are 15 years in but don't yet have a reserve side or academy so production of French/Catalans players isn't going to improve much.

Why were they brougut in?

If it was to have a solid crowd and win the odd trophy then yes they have been a success.
If it was to improve the French national side, French RL and add an influx of Gallic flair to SL then no they haven't.

How many of their players in the last 15 years have been plucked from the French league and moulded into top SL stars? Surely that was the idea behind them?

1. The two cannot exist together because [uthe player pool is only big enough for about 10 decent full squads of quality players.
[/u
That is typical of your type of argument with respect. You can invent clubs anywhere you want but you also have to invent rich investors to pay the bills and invent squad after squad of 25 extra top quality players to staff them. Sorry but argument over it HAS to be one or the other. SKY will only back an English league so that is that.

2. It doesn't grow by you inventing rich owners who do not exist, setting up clubs where these are no pro players, and doing this in countries where the media have no interest paying £Millions to televise a sport nobody is interested in in any number

And that is the reality in a nutshell

1. NO homegrown players now or ever as they don't play RL in Canada

2. NO rich investors, into 4 years now and the only investor is an NRL aussie

3. NO NATV deals and by their own admission none without 5 NA clubs in SL which will kill the game here.

The game does not grow it survives and 124 years of struggle proves my case 100% If your thinking of replying don't bother. Go have a long hard think about all the stuff your inventing in your head. Get a book like Trevor Delaneys the grounds of Rugby League and you will find 50 attempts to expand the game over 124 years......

It's in reality all about survival......It always has been........and Sadler and Lockwood should know this.

It was to improve the French national side up to Test Level status.

It has failed on the criteria it was created on.

I love Catalans but there is now a strong argument they may serve the game better playing in the French league.

Whilst I’m sure improving the National team was one of the objectives, I’m pretty sure that wouldn’t be the only thing.

Are you saying you don’t believe Catalans are an asset to the league?

Also, I’m not inventing millionaires, Argyle is doing it right now, but you’re challenging whether we should allow it.... why not? If he’s stupid enough to throw silly money at it, why stop him? And if it does work, you can bet your bottom dollar there’ll be others who want to follow suit...

I’m more than happy that we’ll agree to disagree on this one. I agree with all your latest points on the history of the game and expansion attempts in the past, and it all being about survival - I guess where my head is at, is that expansion offers the potential of more than just survival, it offers huge growth potential if done right (which it never has been), and I think it’s worth a shot, you clearly don’t, and that’s cool too. One things for sure, I’ll still love my rugby league, and whatever path the game takes, all I want is for it to prosper and reach its potential - and its a million miles from its potential currently.

The French side may well have improved but, expecting them to be on a par with England or NZ was NEVER going to happen.
We would have been better served adding Toulouse to SL and helping further, rather than chucking Catalan under the bus.

When you say better, better for who ??

England aren’t even test level now so by Donnymans argument all the English clubs should be kicked out of SL lmao

One of the best posts I've read, sums it all up so everyone can understand.

Try my post above, it's a reality post, and of course you don't speak for everyone nor do you qualify to patronise them over their thought processes.

So...

That Salford Toronto game eh?

Read my post above, I know you won't troll and will give it a fair chance.

The inclusion of Les Catalans as a Superleague club was of course to develop quality French players and a French TV deal. Those' two things keep the game just about alive along the M62. Those two things were also asked of TWP. Those two things apply to Toulouse - Lenegan went to Toulouse years ago to tell them that the game needed quality players and paying TV deals.

My friend, Toulouse have no SL quality players otherwise Les Catalans would have signed them. Despite Toulouse being in the league here the TV company pulled the deal.

The French have very sadly failed big time yet you would still give then two spaces in Superleague? What do you think clubs like Leigh, Bradford, Newcastle and Widnes would say if Ian Lenegan put Toulouse in Superleague???? They would be livid....

I’ve been involved in the game for over 30 years, so I’m pretty well versed in the history and the facts - I’m not sure you’ve provided any facts that I’ve not accepted. What you have provided is your opinion that heartland clubs are more important (which I don’t even think I’ve disagreed with), that the aim of Catalans was to have a better French national team (again, I don’t disagree, but believe it’s about more than just that) and that expansion is pointless - that bit I do disagree with.....

Anyway, that’s me done with this conversation, I think I’ve shared my views in a rational manner, with a nod to what I see as the very long term potential benefits of expansion, the factors we’d need to rely on for it to work and an acceptance that it is a long shot, and that IMO it’s worth a try.

Over and out!

Of course I don't speak for everyone but that his post was understandable. Are you saying that you didn't understand what he was saying because it made sense to me?

As do some of your points that I agree with, just not every one of your points because I believe we can have both, expansion and heartland. Also that widnes and Bradford are nowhere near financiallly capable to be in super league. Any proof that they are?

If only eh! I wonder if every Toronto game thread will end up like this.

On a note relating to the game, the Williams try has gone viral on social media after football fans picked up on his likeness to Mo Salah. Nice bit of exposure for Salford.

Took them long enough

Donnyman doesn’t deal in “proof”

Let's hope it's the only likeness to that little $h1te from down the M62!



I got all excited about a 5 page Salford thread only to read about half a dozen posts about the actual game!

This new Salford team is definitely a WIP. The problem is we don't have much time to gel with the fixtures coming up. Home games against the likes of Hudds, KR & Leeds are games we need to be winning before we get the (on paper) tougher fixtures. I'm still confident we'll be sat just below mid-table by the end of the season but the next 4-6 weeks will probably define our season IMO. Get the points on the board early and take a bit of the pressure off.

A few promising signs from Brown last week and Seb will be a key player once he's fully fit. Sarginson was excellent I thought as well against Toronto and will definitely solidify the backline defensively.

You can "over and out" as much as you want, if the French quality player pool is smaller than 1996 and the French TV deal was pulled then what "expansion" are you going on about?

Your welcome to any opinion even if it doesn't have any basis of fact. As long as TWP go round pretending they are the best thing to ever happen to the game here the vast majority of fans will call it out, I thought once in SL TWP would be found out by one and all, but a small percentage of fans still want to argue sending the old Leigh team to play 3,000 miles away as a plaything of a mega rich Aussie is "expansion"

Perhaps you can organise a ban on anyone pointing out how nonsensical it all is? Or you could try posting on Total RL.com. They do threads where your not allowed to post anything but nice comments on TWP. Staying on topic I wonder if 80% of the Salford fans were scratching their heads saying "[iwhere are the Canadian players?[/i" "[iwhere are the Canadian fans"[/i

No just leave it out of the game threads as some of us actually want to discuss the game and leave the politics out of it. There is a thread to discuss expansion as you know.

Well said

The game is over now, time to move on.