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| Quote ="Him"Yep. Sadly has the signs of another club owner with a bigger ego than bank balance.
Chalmers seems intent on sticking it to the Council/RFL rather than actually sorting the issue.
If I were the RFL I’d sell the lease back to the Council and so allow them to sell the land, presumably for housing.'"
Why should the council buy it back. The RFL can keep it 'til the lease runs out.
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| Quote ="Mr Dog"Probably should post as I don't think anyone else has the RFL's response to Chalmers' announcement
[i"Bradford’s request to use the Tetley’s Stadium in Dewsbury as a home ground remains subject to the approval of the RFL Board, who are charged with making a decision in the best interests of the sport. We have not received an application, and it would be inappropriate to comment until we do."[/i'"
Yeah, the wording of that does come across as shocked that someone would call their bluff.
Chalmers has already come out and set a deadline for a response regarding the future of Odsal from the RFL and Bradford Council and that the club would be looking to leave Odsal if there was nothing positive forthcoming.
All it really says is that the Bulls haven't put in the official paperwork to change locations.
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| If I were Chalmers with no long term connection to the club and it cost me a fortune to run I would hope that the RFL do not sanction the move, I would put the club into admin and buy the first AirNZ ticket I could.
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| Exactly which land does the Odsal site encompass? Is the open land to the South East included (behind the hospitality units)? Is the car park and sports centre over the road included?
Have the RFL explored turning Odsal into an elite RL development centre - potentially combined with a modern RL stadium (think mini-Twickenham)?
If the site is big enough, could run (a) international setup (b) major fixtures (30-35k dedicated RL stadium) and (c) Bradford to meet some of the ongoing costs out of one site. Perhaps even more Red Hall over there. I appreciate that this is not an insignificant project or undertaking, but to me it seems like there may be an opportunity that benefits both the sport and the club here?
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| Quote ="Diavolo Rosso"Exactly which land does the Odsal site encompass? Is the open land to the South East included (behind the hospitality units)? Is the car park and sports centre over the road included?
Have the RFL explored turning Odsal into an elite RL development centre - potentially combined with a modern RL stadium (think mini-Twickenham)?
If the site is big enough, could run (a) international setup (b) major fixtures (30-35k dedicated RL stadium) and (c) Bradford to meet some of the ongoing costs out of one site. Perhaps even more Red Hall over there. I appreciate that this is not an insignificant project or undertaking, but to me it seems like there may be an opportunity that benefits both the sport and the club here?'"
I think this one has been done to death on so many occasions.
Before we even contemplate a huge development, which MAY offer some benefit to the game as a whole, why would anyone want to throw £million and millions into the Odsal hole.
IF there was a need for a national RL stadium etc, Odsal is not the answer
Even if RL was awash with cash, like the Union game, this would still be wrong but, our sport is losing brass year on year already, with Odsal already emptying the bath.
Just no.
It would be mighty interesting what The RFL tried to do with the site and lease IF Bradford were to leave
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| Quote ="Diavolo Rosso"Exactly which land does the Odsal site encompass? Is the open land to the South East included (behind the hospitality units)? Is the car park and sports centre over the road included?
Have the RFL explored turning Odsal into an elite RL development centre - potentially combined with a modern RL stadium (think mini-Twickenham)?
If the site is big enough, could run (a) international setup (b) major fixtures (30-35k dedicated RL stadium) and (c) Bradford to meet some of the ongoing costs out of one site. Perhaps even more Red Hall over there. I appreciate that this is not an insignificant project or undertaking, but to me it seems like there may be an opportunity that benefits both the sport and the club here?'"
Maybe that could have been an option about 15 years ago, with the lead up to the London Olympics and extra cash flying around for sport legacy projects, but Odsal is still far too gone to be developed into a modern stadium without a hell of a lot of investment. IMO, there's no plan for redevelopment at Odsal that would be cheaper than just using a different site
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| Dunno if it is possible,but it may be worthwhile consulting with the government who,allegedly,want space to construct prisons.
It seems there may be objections to building at Full Sutton - Odsal would be in a good position to transport prisoners to courts around the north of England and most prisons in the north of England are at overcrowding limits
[url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49309112Prisons - Government[/url
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| There's a few people that have been involved in the never ending Bradford saga who could do with being locked up. Poetic justice to do so at Odsal.
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| Quote ="roofaldo2"Yeah, the wording of that does come across as shocked that someone would call their bluff.
Chalmers has already come out and set a deadline for a response regarding the future of Odsal from the RFL and Bradford Council and that the club would be looking to leave Odsal if there was nothing positive forthcoming.
All it really says is that the Bulls haven't put in the official paperwork to change locations.'"
No, it means that they don't have permission to play where they say they are going to. The "making a decision in the best interests of the sport" is the key phrase. The RFL allowing an asset currently valued by them at around £400k to just disappear can't in anyway be considered to fit with that - and I doubt all the SL club chairmen 'friends' AC has made through his newspaper comments will be will be particularly supportive of him. Interesting times ahead I feel.
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| Quote ="rugbyreddog"Why should the council buy it back. The RFL can keep it 'til the lease runs out.'"
Seem to remember there's a covenant on the lease that its only valid as long as professional rugby is played there. If Bulls leave the lease reverts to Bradford council and RFL are left with nothing.
And for poster stating the 72k rent is Bulls paying back the RFL loan. That was paid back in full at the time of RFL purchase of Odsal lease. The full amount of the original loan was deducted from the purchase price at time that RFL bought the lease, This was one of factors which led to First Bulls administration.
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| think the time has come to transfer the lease to the council and let them redevelop the site, hopefully a deal can be done for a new sports stadium with some of the proceeds. odsal is an old stadium, open to the elements, a rubbish view, below average facilities, yet while it stands there is always the temptation for bradford to keep going back to it for nostalgias sake. look at all the other clubs who have moved on from their old grounds. it is a place with a rich history but simply is not fit for purpose in 2019
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| Quote ="roofaldo2"Maybe that could have been an option about 15 years ago, with the lead up to the London Olympics and extra cash flying around for sport legacy projects, but Odsal is still far too gone to be developed into a modern stadium without a hell of a lot of investment. IMO, there's no plan for redevelopment at Odsal that would be cheaper than just using a different site'"
the cost for something like that would be astronomical, way out of the rfls ability to achieve
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| Quote ="the artist"think the time has come to transfer the lease to the council and let them redevelop the site, hopefully a deal can be done for a new sports stadium with some of the proceeds. odsal is an old stadium, open to the elements, a rubbish view, below average facilities, yet while it stands there is always the temptation for bradford to keep going back to it for nostalgias sake. look at all the other clubs who have moved on from their old grounds. it is a place with a rich history but simply is not fit for purpose in 2019'"
The most sensible course of action would be a new community stadium on the Richard Dunn site across the road - the sports there is due to close shortly as there is a new site being built around the corner.
The new stadium could be used to house both the Bulls and Bradford Park Ave who play up the road at the Horsfall Stadium (another council owned ground). This gives both clubs the facilities they need to progress in their sports as well as give the council a new venue for other events and allows the council to make back some of the money by selling off the unrequired old stadiums for redevelopment
Won't happen because that's a sensible plan that solves everyone's problems
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| So if the RFL are paying a peppercorn rent and there's a covenant on the ground stipulating RL must be played there, what's stopping the RFL handing the lease back? All the risk appears to be with Bradford on getting a suitable venue, both now and in the future.
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| I have many great and not so good memories of Odsal, but one thing which always sticks in my mind is that fantastic picture of the Challenge cup replay “I think” over 100,000 attended this match and if memory serves me right Warry and Gerry Helme was involved.
The picture or print of this iconic occasion was to me as a young lad in the sixties, such a powerful part of rugby leagues history.
Good luck to all Bradford’s fans on this proposed venture, and a sad farewell to another part of rugby league folklore.
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| Just to clear up some misconceptions here.
The RFL have a leasehold on the ground that has 130 odd years left to run. There was a covenant that it’s primary use had to be as a rugby league stadium. That ended 31st May 2019.
The Company trading as Bradford Bulls has a sub lease that runs out 30th September 2019.
Also Michael Carter and Neil Hudgell have gone public in their desire to purchase RFL’s leasehold. Unless that was b0ll0x from a pair of gobsh17es.
So everyone is a winner apart from the fans who have to travel to home games for the foreseeable.
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| Quote ="Mr Dog"The head lease between the RFL and BMDC is at a peppercorn rate. The sublease between the Bulls and the RFL is supposedly £72k pa -this is effectively them paying back the loan given to the last but one but one(?) incarnation of the club. The big costs are maintenance, which the new owners should really have known if they had performed the required due diligence before setting up shop there. A few years of consolidation as a PT club should really have been the way to go rather than signing up a squad of 35 with 22 FT players and going for instant success.'"
I’ve seen this “due diligence” rubbish spouted by a few people including the usual “experts” in the press. The knobs at forty20 magazine.
Fact is you can only do “due diligence” based on accounts made available by the administrator. These are inturn what the administrator has managed to put together in a rush based on what they could find. Given the people running the club before the last administration (Marc Green’s crew) proved to be not that great at accounting I’m guessing the true scale of the costs involved weren’t that obvious. They certainly were after Chalmers had had to pump in half a million after year one to cover the losses.
You know cutting your cloth and all that other garbage people come out with.
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| Quote ="Pumpetypump"There's a few people that have been involved in the never ending Bradford saga who could do with being locked up. Poetic justice to do so at Odsal.'"
You think any of who you refer to are still involved?
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| Quote ="Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza"Just to clear up some misconceptions here.
The RFL have a leasehold on the ground that has 130 odd years left to run. There was a covenant that it’s primary use had to be as a rugby league stadium. That ended 31st May 2019.
The Company trading as Bradford Bulls has a sub lease that runs out 30th September 2019.
Also Michael Carter and Neil Hudgell have gone public in their desire to purchase RFL’s leasehold. Unless that was b0ll0x from a pair of gobsh17es.
So everyone is a winner apart from the fans who have to travel to home games for the foreseeable.'"
The covenant that ran out in may 2019 was related to the odsal settlement made when bulls moved back to odsal from Valley parade. It locked bulls into playing majority of their first team games at odsal. If they moved before this date they had to repay part of the settlement money.
The Covenant saying the ground has to be used for professional rugby is for the duration of the head lease, ie another 130 yrs.
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| IIRC The RFL bailed out Bradford by buying the stadium at a large price and now the are still complaining about rent etc?
So if this move is allowed to go through, the RFL will have sunk a large amount of money into this single club and the only chance of now getting their money back is a sale if the ground which might not be possible?
In hindsight (and many said this at the time) Bradford should have been allowed to fold. If they had, a reformed Bradford might have rebuilt better than the current team already.
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| Quote ="Gallanteer"IIRC The RFL bailed out Bradford by buying the stadium at a large price and now the are still complaining about rent etc?
So if this move is allowed to go through, the RFL will have sunk a large amount of money into this single club and the only chance of now getting their money back is a sale if the ground which might not be possible?
In hindsight (and many said this at the time) Bradford should have been allowed to fold. If they had, a reformed Bradford might have rebuilt better than the current team already.'"
Cool story Bro, however, the R.F.L. didn't buy the stadium!
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| Quote ="Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza"Just to clear up some misconceptions here.
The RFL have a leasehold on the ground that has 130 odd years left to run. There was a covenant that it’s primary use had to be as a rugby league stadium. That ended 31st May 2019.
The Company trading as Bradford Bulls has a sub lease that runs out 30th September 2019.
Also Michael Carter and Neil Hudgell have gone public in their desire to purchase RFL’s leasehold. Unless that was b0ll0x from a pair of gobsh17es.
So everyone is a winner apart from the fans who have to travel to home games for the foreseeable.'"
And the RFL who, despite "helping" Bradford on numerous occasions, now look like being left with a lease which is no good to them and although they could possibly offload this back to Bradford Council, just how much would the council or anyone else pay them for the lease ??
They (the RFL) seem to have little choice other than to "force" Bradford to stay - interesting times.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"And the RFL who, despite "helping" Bradford on numerous occasions, now look like being left with a lease which is no good to them and although they could possibly offload this back to Bradford Council, just how much would the council or anyone else pay them for the lease ??
They (the RFL) seem to have little choice other than to "force" Bradford to stay - interesting times.'"
If Chalmers is telling the truth, rather than this being brinkmanship, then the RFL refusing approval would surely put the Bulls back into admin.
What a massive conflict of interest, out of character for the RFL to male an almighty cock up.
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| Quote ="Gallanteer"In hindsight (and many said this at the time) Bradford should have been allowed to fold. If they had, a reformed Bradford might have rebuilt better than the current team already.'"
Well we did fold. We ceased to exist. It's just the RFL insisted that the new start club start in the championship rather than in ch1 purely as it was an inconvenience to change the fixture list. I don't think that was fair on Bradford with no players, nor fair on the integrity of the game where other new clubs have to start at the bottom. Most of us wanted to start afresh in ch1.
I'd challenge the school of thought that Bradford have been entirely on the end of altruistic favours from the RFL (but then I would wouldn't I). Many of the 'favours' have transpired to be miniature nooses.
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| Quote ="Ewwenorfolk"If Chalmers is telling the truth, rather than this being brinkmanship, then the RFL refusing approval would surely put the Bulls back into admin.
What a massive conflict of interest, out of character for the RFL to male an almighty cock up.'"
Unless there is a clause in the lease which would allow the RFL to "sell" the lease back to the council, I dont see that they have too much choice other than "insist" that Bradford remain there.
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