Remind us where Wlamsley came from or Sinfield, Morley etc, etc
All came from "paracitical" clubs like Batley and Oldham.

Some folk, who really ougth to know better, really have no grasp how our sport works.
It's not just about Super Dooper League and there is value to EVERY club at amateur and professional level, whether that is Wigan St Pats or Wigan Warriors, Cas Tigers or Cas Lock Lane, Dewsbury Rams or Dewsbury Celtic. Widnes or Warrington.

Its unbelievable how some can think that dropping half a dozen clubs from SL will improve the prospects of either Super League or RL in general.
SOME even want to replace clubs with poor attendances with new clubs, with no roots, no rugby league culture and possibly no long term future



Success will be making the most of what we have, receiving the highest level of investment (at all levels) and finding the best way to grow the sport FOR THE GOOD OF EVERYONE.

Some seem not to have learnt from the failures in places like Paris or Wrexham and want the sport to GAMBLE EVERYTHING in new territories.

Those who govern the sport need to have a short, medium and long term strategy, something that hasn't been too apparent over the last 40 years. Part of this may involve clubs in North America and it MAY work but, it may be wise to see what happens when Toronto get beaten every week by Wigan, Warrington or Wakefield before believing that they are the best way forward.

Sinfield was an amateur in Oldham - Leeds was his first professional club he never played for Oldham - he made his debut for Leeds at 16. Morley was the same - there is a case for putting the money into the top amateur sides and I would support that.

All sports have to be lead from the elite level - that is where the funding is generated. How you think weakening that in favour of supporting ground-roots rugby that nobody is interested in watching defies belief.

The better the elite competition the more money will flow into the game. If you want to keep clubs going with 500 spectators then link them to a SL club and their team is effectively the reserve grade i.e. players not getting selected for SL and youngsters on the way up.

The future is in the SL clubs and the really top amateur clubs - the rest are just an unnecessary drain on tight resources.

Catalans have had one of the best teams in the competition two or three times and have one GF Eliminator and one Challenge Cup win to show for some of their brilliant collection of players and brilliant coaches they’ve had down there. Let’s not get carried away with their success.

They won the Cup but Wire won the Cup finishing tenth in 2009.

It was where Wire went from there that was impressive, not that first solitary Cup after a 35 year drought. Look at Catalans, they’ve arguably got one of the best squads in SL yet they’re lying in eighth place after being in the Million Pound Game last year.

I’d say they are massively underachieving rather than saying they’re a success.

They had one of the best teams in SL in the past, under Robinson, getting to the GF Eliminator and the next year they finished bottom.

They’ve got a long way to go before we call them a success. I still think Wire have and we’ve won three CCs and two LLSs in the last decade, getting to eight finals in the decade. But I say we still underachieved because in 2011-13 aside from Riley on the left wing we had arguably one of the top five sides in the SL era yet didn’t win the GF (2011 side especially should have).

One CC win from a massively underachieving club doesn’t show that mergers work, at all!

Do you really think that players, apart from very, very rare exceptions, can go from playing for Wath brow one week to playing for a SL side the next, it's just a ridiculous idea.

Your plan would leave us with 6 or 7 SL clubs and then a drop to amateur rugby ??
Which TV company would want to invest in that ?

Football, the biggest and wealthiest sport in the UK, seems able to embrace clubs from Man United to Burnley without any difficulties and whilst their investment is on a substantially different level, they seem able to embrace the diversity within the sport and "sells" the fixtures.
Some RL fans seem to want 6 or 7 SL clubs and feck the rest.
I'm sorry but that will kill the sport far more quickly than having Wakefield, Salford and Widnes in the top flight.

Again, football has a pyramid that allows players to work their way up and allow the players that develop later (or more slowly) to find their way to the top.

I believe that you are old enough to remember RL before the Lindsay revolution and nobody at that point gave a stuff about attendances or, how many plastic seats were at each ground, this only came about when "franchising" was the order of the day.
A number of clubs have managed to improve their facilities and attendances, Hull FC, Warrington, Saints etc but, ultimately this has done nothing and will do nothing to help increase investment within the sport and even if/when we have a SL with all clubs achieving the mystical 10,000 fans at each game, something actually made more difficult by ever changing fixture dates to accommodate Sky, investment wont increase because of that.
The clubs want bums on seats, Sky want screen filler and the armchair viewer just wants a decent game to watch end of story.
But, knock yourself out with the American dream and destroy half of the remaining SL clubs and all of the other semi pro clubs and then enjoy Leeds v Wigan and Wire v Saints

Im pretty sure he means investing in the grass root teams to produce more junior talent that will filter into SL academy sides which imo, is the thing we should be doing.

Spot on mate.

Let's deal with your points:
The game needs to increase participation that can be done in two main ways: An elite competition that inspires kids to want to play the game e.g. Premier League soccer or through grass roots clubs that give kids an outlet to try the game under appropriate supervision/coaching. Both of these areas of the game need investment. One brings the money in and the other provides the players to ultimately bring the money in.

What I am saying is very few players go to SL from Wath Brow via the Championship - the lack of numbers means there are a miniscule amount of late developers who actually make it at elite level and exceptions should never be the basis for your strategy.

My view is we need a 14 team SL each supporting a championship/feeder club - the 14 teams need to be strategically selected and have a 10 year franchise - no promotion/relegation but strict guidelines around the interaction with the feeder clubs and the amateur/grass roots clubs in their area.

I fail to see how taking funds from the SL clubs and giving it to Dewsbury/Keighley/Hunslet/Swinton/Oldham etc is going to enhance either participation or profile. Their core fans aren't interested in going along to watch them - what's the point?

All everyone wants is high quality entertainment - that will not happen by squandering money so the championship clubs can pay over-the-hill players more money because that is all that will happen with any additional funding.

I fully understand the sentiment in your post, however, if you cut out the 2nd and 3rd tier of the sport and rely on club academies to prepare players for SL, you will kill the sport, you would also massively alienate the fans who do attend those games and whilst some may drift towards their nearest SL club, the majority of them would be lost to the game and probably their kids and grand kids as well.

We need the whole RL pyramid to be as strong as possible, all the way through the amateur game, right up to SL and International level.
If you take out one or 2 levels you would kill the game.
Yes, there are ageing players in The Championship and League 1 BUT, there are also young kids learning their trade.
Many SL sides have players on dual reg at Championship and League 1 sides. Should they sit in the stands and vegetate or maybe just chuck them on the scrapheap if they haven't made the grade at a particular point in time.

Castleford and Wakefield even as a Wakefield fan, has always made sense to me. Along with Fev thrown in there, crowds would increase and the three would be better off financially. I could only consider them being called Wakefield though.

What's the point in merging only to keep the name wakey?

Bigger crowds and to be better off financially, I don't see how it's so hard to get your head round considering both Castleford and Featherstone are towns within Wakefield?

All three in the Metropolitan District of Wakefield.
Three = a Trinity
= Wakefield Trinity.

Wakefordstone.

What would be in it for Cas?

The same thing that would be in it for Wakefield and Featherstone. Bigger crowds and to be better off financially.

The novelty of seeing the wakey ground full of home fans ???

Quite clearly you are not right in the head.

Cas do ok, competent on.the field, make a profit, use the full salary cap, average 8k+.

There's absolutely nothing for Cas to gain by merging with a club who are inferior in all departments.

There’s nothing in it for Fev merging with wakey, let alone Cas

"The meaning and outcome of communication is in the response you get" suggests I have not explained myself.

I am not saying get rid of layers 2/3 I am saying link them to a SL club. This way we have 14 SL clubs and 14 feeder clubs not dissimilar to the NRL version. All these players that don't make the grade or are too old to make the grade anymore will have a place to play at a competitive level.

Halifax are a Championship club that everyone applauds because they have reserve grade - but if you look at their starting 17 not one has come through the academy system so why should these clubs get more funding to simply employ players developed by other SL clubs - players such as Scott Murrell, Ben Johnston, Will Maher, Simon Grix, Steve Tyrer etc. etc.

If we alienated all the fans from the Championship - which wouldn't happen as I would include Bradford, London, Toulouse and Toronto/Cumbria in the SL - how many fans are you actually going to lose - 300 at Hunslet, 500 at Keighley, 400 at Swinton etc 10-15k at the most and not all these would simply stop attending.

For me history is a anchor not a springboard for RL.

"Make a profit" ??

Is that why you sold you best player "cash upfront" to Wire a couple of seasons ago.
Also, how much of the Fulton loans are still on the books or, were they written off when he passed away ?

Having a wealthy guy to take care of any losses seems a little different from being "in profit".

Agree about competent on the field and not sure about the use of the cap and any marque player(s)

The cup run and hub cap have certainly helped and well done on those.

Hull FC & Hull KR

Lets face it they have started the process already with running a joint academy. Plus listening to Lee Radford on Rugby AM about the state of junior rugby league in Hull it makes even more sense.


Workington & Whitehaven

Quote ="wrencat1873""Make a profit" ?? Is that why you sold you best player "cash upfront" to Wire a couple of seasons ago. Also, how much of the Fulton loans are still on the books or, were they written off when he passed away ? Having a wealthy guy to take care of any losses seems a little different from being "in profit". Agree about competent on the field and not sure about the use of the cap and any marque player(s) The cup run and hub cap have certainly helped and well done on those.'" https://www.pontefractandcastlefordexpr ... 738478/amp That’s before we won the hub cap and 2 years after we went to wembley. “This is the third consecutive year we have posted a profit without any financial assistance” Just a quick google of ‘Cas tigers profit’ would have saved you looking dumb and bitter

Quote ="wrencat1873""Make a profit" ?? Is that why you sold you best player "cash upfront" to Wire a couple of seasons ago. Also, how much of the Fulton loans are still on the books or, were they written off when he passed away ? Having a wealthy guy to take care of any losses seems a little different from being "in profit". Agree about competent on the field and not sure about the use of the cap and any marque player(s) The cup run and hub cap have certainly helped and well done on those.'" https://www.pontefractandcastlefordexpr ... 738478/amp That’s before we won the hub cap and 2 years after we went to wembley. “This is the third consecutive year we have posted a profit without any financial assistance” Just a quick google of ‘Cas tigers profit’ would have saved you looking dumb and bitter

And banging on about making a profit, when you've traditionally been bank rolled by Mr Fulton give a slightly false impression.
Do you know how much the directors loans are from the Fultons or, have they all been written off.

Btw, not bitter, its been a great turnround since Powell came on board and you could be really challenging if not for some injuries.
Get back to me when you find out.

Quote ="wrencat1873""Make a profit" ?? Is that why you sold you best player "cash upfront" to Wire a couple of seasons ago. Also, how much of the Fulton loans are still on the books or, were they written off when he passed away ? Having a wealthy guy to take care of any losses seems a little different from being "in profit". Agree about competent on the field and not sure about the use of the cap and any marque player(s) The cup run and hub cap have certainly helped and well done on those.'" Yes a profit https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.york ... 738442/amp Things have improved considerably since Daz Clark was sold 4 years ago... Increase in attendances, League leaders prize money, Denny Solomona settlement. I believe the Fulton debt was converted to shares.

Quote ="wrencat1873""Make a profit" ?? Is that why you sold you best player "cash upfront" to Wire a couple of seasons ago. Also, how much of the Fulton loans are still on the books or, were they written off when he passed away ? Having a wealthy guy to take care of any losses seems a little different from being "in profit". Agree about competent on the field and not sure about the use of the cap and any marque player(s) The cup run and hub cap have certainly helped and well done on those.'" Yes a profit https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.york ... 738442/amp Things have improved considerably since Daz Clark was sold 4 years ago... Increase in attendances, League leaders prize money, Denny Solomona settlement. I believe the Fulton debt was converted to shares.